Comment by WoofWoof91 [comrade/them]@hexbear.net on Ngl imo there should probably be some specific rules for interacting with 196 in the light of the blahaj stuff

Like it’s only so long until a user there posts a dumbass “Kick Tankies out of Lemmy” meme to try and start shit to get us defedded and hexbears take the bait immediately and pile on to tell them what a dumbass they are.

Like as dumb as the “death to NATO” being compared to “death to the people of NATO” stuff was, blahaj and hexbear are the largest queer instances and I quite like taking part in it and their trans communities, idk it’s kinda nice to interact with people who don’t have the same kind of hexbear brainrot where I see the words “pumpkin spice”, “Maoist cult”, “Soyfacing PMC radlib” or “rock stacking” and immediately start to go :sus: mentally, it feels refreshing to be able to talk to an incredibly queer positive community that doesn’t have the same kind of internet poisoning as all of us. And it seems kind of assholy that some of the users here just don’t give a shit and want to post and dunk until we get defedded by every instance, this isn’t like lemmy.ca where they were all dicks that none of us liked anyway and were complaining about us doing hate speech against fucking landlords or lemm.ee where almost every time time a user from there pops their head into our threads here they say something racist or transphobic. iirc blahaj.zone was actually the second most requested instance to federate with in the pre federation discussions due to how good of a queer space it was.

Like their first defed thread was a complete embarrassment because there were a load of users there that actually had positive opinions towards us and then they saw the shitshow happening once from the post reaching active and changed to be way against us which tbh, fair enough.

Edit:
statements from the head mod Ada:

their banner image literally says “fuck tankies”

as cringe as it is that blahaj.zone hosts an explicitly anti-communist comm for a community half full of chasers, blahaj zone as a whole is pretty cool and i wouldn’t like to see it defedded

fair, though if it does get defedded, you can always make an account over there, i had to for some furry instances that were deemed too risque to be federated

Yeah ig, I’d just rather be able to spend time in both at the same time rather than just one at a time

yeah, it is kinda nice to not have to switch accounts

and rightly so.

fuck authoritarianism, fuck hierarchies and fuck commie cops

no gods, no masters. the only way forward.

fuck authoritarianism

Ok, so define it first. Bonus points if you don’t consult the state department.

The UK is currently run by an unelected, unopposed dictatorial tyrant with no mandate. Just something to think about while you try and invent a definition.

fuck hierarchies

How do you intend to organise?

fuck commie cops

I don’t see the People’s Police running protestors over or shooting minorities on the regular.

let’s have a look at your wonderful communist china

social credit system and total surveillance. One wrong word and you’re boned.

the people’s police? You mean like Tianenmen Square?

And what about your wonderful communist utopia of Russia? Raping ukrainian children?

Our theory is that the tank commander was the guy’s son and Tank Man was asking him what he wanted for dinner.

My theory is he was clearly a hardline Maoist, he’s trying to get the tanks to go back towards the square. “What do you mean you’re done! You’re done when I say you’re done!”

You know there are actually people living in China, including foreigners, and you can ask them about the “social credit score” right? And they all say they’ve never heard of it. On Baidu they actually joke about it because westerners think it actually exists. You can even ask them any other question about China you want! You don’t have to limit yourself to one topic!

OP explicitly said

Bonus points if you don’t consult the state department

You don’t get the bonus points. In fact, you get points deducted.

Woah, I had no idea social credit was made up. That kinda blows my mind.

iirc it’s actually an internal system for cracking down on corrupt businesses, not individual people but it was reported on incredibly disingenuously in the west and then redditors started talking about it like it was this Orwellian super surveillance (i.e. like the system they currently live in in America)

Here’s something by the Canadian government informing Canadian businesses on how to act in China: https://www.tradecommissioner.gc.ca/china-chine/cscs-scse.aspx?lang=eng

As part of China’s push towards data-driven governance, the Corporate Social Credit System (CSCS) is to be a single, standardized reputation-based scheme for both local and foreign firms doing business in China, ensuring their regulatory compliance and improving their corporate behaviour.

Also I’m pretty sure I saw another article talking about its exact functionality at some other point but I can’t find it rn.

It’s a really good example of how something very widely discussed in popular media can be very misleading. There is a credit system, there’s a kernel of truth, but the reporting is completely different from what’s really happening. But because the reporting was so pervasive many people have accepted it as an article of faith and even if you try to show them what’s really going on they’ll retreat from it without engaging with the idea they might have been misled.

There is a social credit score for businesses (to ding them for anti-social practices like fraud, littering, etc), but nothing recognizable exists for individuals

total surveillance

My home country literally has a higher level of CCTV cameras per person than any other country in the world, closely followed by the US and then Australia. America has the highest police funding per capita in the world, far outstripping the UK in second place. The snowden leaks revealed that the NSA uses it’s ability to track people and read their messages and look at anything saved on their computers for NSA agents to stalk their crushes at all hours, find nudes they’d taken on their phone, see if they were flirting with other people and had an internal culture of showing the nudes (i.e. ones saved on the victims phone and not willingly shared with the NSA creep) of the people they were stalking (and were looking at without their knowledge, let alone consent) to other people in the office, they even had an informal term for this called ‘lovetapping’ iirc. If you live in a five eyes country, then every bit of information your native intelligence agency has on you is shared with all of the other nations in the agreement.

Liberal can’t read, knows nothing with extreme confidence.

Go away. We don’t have to be nice to you here.

“I uncritically believe all the propaganda the state department shovels in to my little piggie maw, because unquestioning acceptance of everything the US State Department says is the core of Anarchism”

There are many many Anarchist critiques of the behavior of the AES states. Well founded, valid arguments that need to be considered. State Department propaganda is not on that list, and you’re an embarrassment to everyone who has fought and died for Anarchist causes.

lmao put a little more effort into it ya dork

You’re posting in a communist instance mf, and you’re not in either blahaj or hexbear so I don’t really give a shit about your opinion on the matter

Despite the ML dominance we’re technically non-sectarian.

By many uses, anarchism and ML are both communism

MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY

^ THIS IS NOT AN AUTHORITARIAN STATEMENT

ik i’m crazy wanting liberation for all sentient beings and an end to oppression

We need to oppress the oppressors tho

that makes you no better than them

“we want to kill all Jews, black people, queers, romas, communists, unionists, disabled people, antifascists and Slavs”

“we want to suppress or kill Nazis so they can’t do that”

You: “I can’t tell the difference between these two groups, they are exactly the same, if you punch a Nazi that makes you no better than them”

I’m an anarchist myself, but if you try to approach their argument logically I think you’ll have a better chance of understanding why people might come to different conclusions than you.

If the bourgeois were left to their own devices, it stands to reason they’d be back on their shit as soon as they saw a chance. In that light, an oppression of the formerly oppressive minority for the benefit of the majority (literally everyone else) might seem like a necessity.

Based on what theory I’ve read, that and protections from external capitalist pressures are the entire reason for implementing a ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’.

I’m not saying you’re wrong here, just that some empathy might help some leftist unity along into helping more people see things our way.

Reality isn’t a superhero movie, if you want to combat systems that oppress people you need to be practical and make sure that the people enforcing the oppressive systems can’t just undermine you and re-establish them, an outcome that has actually happened in places like Chile in the 1970s

that makes you no better than them

AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

holy shit one of you is actually this stupid! i seriously thought this was just a meme, oh my fucking god you are dumber than dogshit and half as charming

If I put Bezos in jail I am no better than Bezos, you say? Very leftist of you.

Nobody is saying that.

If not for this being Hexbear I would transform into my Super Sectarian form.

Very helpful, thank you for your contribution to this extremely productive ongoing dialogue.

no gods, no masters

right, so let’s go build the material conditions for this to be possible!

let’s call this process hmmm socialism, or something

I didn’t see the original comment, but I agree with general anarchist sentiment and even I know that we won’t be able to jump right to it from capitalism. I view it more as an ideal longterm goal, and we are of course going to need to have a stable socialist society first to get there. That’s why any communist willing to work with anarchists is a comrade of mine!

As an anarchist, my qualms with state socialism are simply I can’t imagine them ever dismantling and giving power back to the people. That being said, I do think heavily centralized governments like China’s are essentially infinitely more likely to not destroy the Earth’s biosphere or plunge a region into forever wars for a few cents worth of profit, so they definitely seem like a much MUCH lesser evil.

The point of a dictatorship of the proletariat is that power is already in the hands of the people by means of a centralized democracy. There is no point in Lenin where he says “and then the Good King abnegates the throne,” because a government organ having unilateral power over the people was something he specifically rejected.

I do understand that is what it says on the tin. I’m not sure how it works in practice, and I have real hesitation to take any powers-that-be at their word. Probably comes from the trauma of growing up in a “free” “democracy” and then finding out it is all bullshit and lies. I also have actual, material criticisms of the USSR and the PRC, but before engaging with those more, I want to develop my understanding of theory from primary sources.

Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.

No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer

Gossip posts go in c/gossip. Don’t post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from c/gossip

Ngl imo there should probably be some specific rules for interacting with 196 in the light of the blahaj stuff

chapotraphouse

!chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

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