Ramaswamy’s response to the pansexual women is about as out of touch as one can get.
I wasn’t referring to that in particular. I was referring to the big-picture point he made in the whole last 11 minutes of the video. The point was about western civilization, the insidious project to undermine it, and our duty to defend it. That point is foundational to much of our disagreement. It sounds like you stopped watching before he even got to the point.
“The decline of christianity”
Yeah, but that misses the bigger picture. It’s not as if people are rejecting Christ and converting to Judaism. Rather it’s a secular movement driven by Satan’s success at convincing a vast swath of the populace that God is imaginary.
I disagree that the foundation of western civ is solely placed on god.
This is one of those ways in which Wikipedia tends to be secular. It says in the intro that Western civilization is “linked” to Christiandom. That’s misleading. Western civilization is Christiandom. The only difference is we don’t call it that anymore. But everything that followed from Christiandom is built upon Christiandom as an extension of Christiandom. Though to the article’s credit, it does later state that:
[…] Western civilization, which throughout most of its history, has been nearly equivalent to Christian culture.
That’s close to accurate. In truth the two are inseparably identical, which is why Satan hates Western civilization, that that in turn is why you’ve been convinced to believe you want to contribute to the project of undermining Western civilization.
If you’re going to look through this, I recommend spending extra time on the section explaining the enlightenment.
I’m not sure exactly what points you’re referring to here. Skimming through it, I’m pretty sure I already know all of these details. The only change I’d make is to emphasize God’s role in all of these things, and His importance to all of these historical figures.
Sure I can, god, according to your worldview, created a world in which children get cancer.
It is the height of hubris to criticize God. His wisdom is infinite, and if yours was too then you’d understand why certain children are given cancer. It’s not for us to try to understand. It’s for us to accept in our worship and prayer.
And before you say I think I know better than god, in reality I know better than the humans who made god up.
At some point, immanently I hope, you’ll realize how absurdly wrong you are about this. You have demons whispering lies into your ears, and you believe them unquestioningly. I know they make it feel good when you believe them, but they’re lying to you.
In the end it wasn’t Zeus who causes lightning, it is a build up of a difference in energy between clouds and the ground.
Comparing Zeus to God is far worse than apples and oranges, because at least apples and oranges are both fruits. It’s like comparing icebergs to smartphones. They have absolutely nothing whatsoever in common, to the point that it’s nonsensical to even try to compare them.
Let’s say you were to throw a basketball, and make a basket. Some scientists observe it, and say “That’s interesting. Let’s figure out what that’s all about.” So they observe you throwing the basketball. They measure your movements, the wind movements, the ball’s PSI, the height of the basket, the material compositions of the ball and basket, just all of it. And then they formulate a theory which postulates how the ball goes through the basket. And then people start to deny that you exist because they have the theory of how the basketball goes through the basket. The whole idea is absolutely ridiculous. God is in control, no matter what your demons tell you.
Not only is that not true [that the most intelligent scientists all believe in God] (because you added the “most intelligent” qualifier), but given that scientific literacy is correlated with atheism, I find it to be rather damning for religion:
First off, it’s self-evidently true, as anyone who denies God cannot be said to be very intelligent. I’m trying to word that so as not to offend you, and it’s hard. Sorry. My point here is not to insult you, but just to explain my statement about the most intelligent scientists.
Secondly, the scientific disciplines are certainly attractive to atheists who want to devote their lives to pretending that they’re disproving God by collecting the evidence of the basketball. So yes, atheists are more likely to become scientists than pastors. We don’t need to consult any studies to know that’s true.
Go for it! It’s pretty easy to play against others nowadays now that there are so many popular chess sites. chess.com and lichess are pretty decent.
Maybe eventually, but not today. I have too much else on my plate. But thank you for letting me know it’s easy to play online. That’s something I hadn’t considered.
I was referring to the big-picture point he made in the whole last 11 minutes of the video.
I am aware that isn’t the focus that you had in mind, but it was one of the bigger reactions I had to it. My overall view is that he is deeply out of touch and incapable of using anything other than a strawman argument. He fundamentally does not understand what he is criticizing.
It’s not as if people are rejecting Christ and converting to Judaism.
That’s not what “The decline in chrstianity” describes.
Rather it’s a secular movement driven by Satan’s success at convincing a vast swath of the populace that God is imaginary.
That’s just not happening.
Western civilization is Christiandom.
No it’s not. Western civ is a pretty arbitrary phrase that is used in a million different ways, and christianity is only a subset of that. Words and phrases change over time, and this is one of those things that has changed.
the project of undermining Western civilization.
There is no such project, at least how I define western civilization.
I’m not sure exactly what points you’re referring to here. Skimming through it, I’m pretty sure I already know all of these details.
If you’re aware of all the details then you should also be aware that the enlightment (a huge part of western civilization) was the birth of science, the scientific method, and secularism. Meaning christendom != western civ.
It is the height of hubris to criticize God. His wisdom is infinite
I am criticizing a fictional, human made character. As a result of being human made, there is no such infinite wisdom.
if yours was too then you’d understand why certain children are given cancer.
There is no good reason.
It’s not for us to try to understand. It’s for us to accept in our worship and prayer.
How have you determined that you aren’t worshiping an evil god if you haven’t questioned god? How do you know that it isn’t the case that both god and satan are evil?
You have demons whispering lies into your ears, and you believe them unquestioningly.
Nobody is whispering anything in my ears, metephorically or literally, whichever way you mean. And I question everything before I believe it.
Comparing Zeus to God is far worse than apples and oranges, because at least apples and oranges are both fruits. It’s like comparing icebergs to smartphones. They have absolutely nothing whatsoever in common, to the point that it’s nonsensical to even try to compare them.
Both Yahweh and Zeus are fictional characters which people irrationally use to explain why things work. That was the basis for my comparison and therefore makes it a valid comparison.
And then people start to deny that you exist because they have the theory of how the basketball goes through the basket. The whole idea is absolutely ridiculous.
That’s not really how that works.
it’s self-evidently true, as anyone who denies God cannot be said to be very intelligent.
That’s not true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence
scientific disciplines are certainly attractive to atheists who want to devote their lives to pretending that they’re disproving God by collecting the evidence of the basketball.
That is absolutely not why people do science. They do so because they want to learn more about the universe, do some good for humanity and advance it. Do you even know a single scientist?
I am criticizing a fictional, human made character. As a result of being human made, there is no such infinite wisdom.
Imagine for once that you are completely wrong about this belief of yours. Yes, it’s the height of hubris. If we know nothing else, we know at very least that our Creator lives.
How have you determined that you aren’t worshiping an evil god if you haven’t questioned god? How do you know that it isn’t the case that both god and satan are evil?
For the Lord is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.
To choose just one of many possible answers.
Nobody is whispering anything in my ears, metephorically or literally, whichever way you mean. And I question everything before I believe it.
I mean literally. You may look at your shoulder, expecting to see no demon, while maybe picturing the cutesy BSD mascot, and sure enough you don’t see one sitting on your shoulder. “See?” you reassure yourself, “no demon.” You then recall that you’ve never seen the BSD mascot running around anywhere IRL, and conclude that demons must not exist.
How sure are you that you do a good job questioning everything before you believe it? Is it possible that you’ve made an error?
Demons do not look like cutesy cartoon characters, and indeed they’re not visible to the human eye (at least not to mine). As with all extant spiritual entities, we can know they exist despite our inability to see them.
Are you just as quick to deny that dark matter exists?
That’s not true. [Re: “it’s self-evidently true, as anyone who denies God cannot be said to be very intelligent.”]
You said you were willing to question your beliefs, so I urge you to question this. I think it underlies the rift between us.
You want to see yourself as a reasonably intelligent person, and you want to cling to a state of mind which you believe to be shared by other intelligent people.
But I ask you, are you so sure that it’s intelligent to reject God? Consider the following:
According to Pew, actively religious people tend to be far happier. Is it intelligent to want to be happy? Could this effect possibly be a quantitative measurement of God’s blessings? And is it intelligent to want to be happy?
Again, I ask you: is it intelligent to want to be happy?
To choose just one of many possible answers.
So you just don’t question whether or not god is good or evil, have I understood correctly? If so, then you have no method of determining if you are worshiping an evil being. That should immediately alarm you if you have any goodness in you.
I mean literally.
Like I said earlier, whichever way you mean, nobody is whispering anything in my ears.
How sure are you that you do a good job questioning everything before you believe it?
It highly depends on the matter at hand. The ridiculousness of a claim is tied to how much I look into something before believing it. If my friend tells me they got a new dog, I’ll probably believe them simply because my trust in them is sufficient for an ubiquitous claim such as that. If they tell me they bought a ferrari, I’d be a little more inquisitive and ask for pictures. If they tell me they bought a dragon, nothing short of seeing it in person will convince me because my understanding of the world is such that dragons do not exist. For a claim as ridiculous as that I would need very strong evidence.
Holding belief until you have sufficient evidence is what you do to avoid errors. I’m not perfect, there are certainly things I am wrong about. But to the best of my ability to understand, this is not something I am wrong about.
Are you just as quick to deny that dark matter exists?
We have pretty strong evidence to suggest that dark matter exists.
Again, I ask you: is it intelligent to want to be happy?
Sure, but lying to yourself will never make you happy. You’re asking me to lie to myself.
