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while you’re trying to get your party into power.

Said the individual campaigning for votes for dems.

If you and the people you are organizing with (I’m sure you organize irl) decide to engage in entryism. Good for you, hope it goes well. I’ll tell you, historically, it typically doesn’t go great.

Newsom literally just vetoed a bill to protect trans kids in california despite overwhelming democrat representation and approval, that’s the most recent ratfuckery the democrats have pulled in a long line of them. You’re telling people to run for office? Tell me what happened to Bernie, an extremely milquetoast left option but still too disruptive to DNC corporate interest.

I agree with you people should vote, they should vote for third parties. they should communicate to political institutions that what we have is not working. But too many Americans have latched onto their dumb sports team red-blue politics game rather than trying to actually understand what political power is materially, theoretically, and historically. If we do engage in entryism (we shouldn’t) it should be organized so as not to get subsumed and crushed. If you are personally compelled to vote for the democrats out of personal interest, I will not stop you. But I am not interested in crumbs dusted from the table.

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1 point

Said the individual campaigning for votes for dems.

Because Dems are less (“LESS” not “NOT”) harmful to minorities and will make my job of trying to end capitalism less risky. I don’t care about Democratic power itself. If you have a better idea to reduce harm I’d like to hear it. I’m pretty sure revolution is going to hurt many vulnerable people.

Newsom literally just vetoed a bill to protect trans kids in california despite overwhelming democrat representation and approval

First off, you’ll notice people calling this a “betrayal”, because they expected more from a Democrat, this and worse would be typical and expected for a Republican. Second of all, I didn’t read the law but read Newsom’s note about it and kinda agree. Newsom is not motivated by trans hate lol.

You’re telling people to run for office? Tell me what happened to Bernie

You give up that easy? Good luck trying to revolt against the world!

I agree with you people should vote, they should vote for third parties.

Math doesn’t give a shit about opinions, voting third party in our system is a losing proposition. Use it for signalling in safe districts.

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23 points

You give up that easy? Good luck trying to revolt against the world!

Says Lucy as she places the football

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First off, you’ll notice people calling this a “betrayal”, because they expected more from a Democrat, this and worse would be typical and expected for a Republican. Second of all, I didn’t read the law but read Newsom’s note about it and kinda agree. Newsom is not motivated by trans hate lol.

Ohhh okay, so the dems can actually be heinous and throw trans folks under the bus but it needs to be cold and calculated and maybe pretend to be sad about it. Gotcha. As long as the calculus lines up, right? All your whinging about trans people getting better treatment under dems was complete bullshit, i guess. Do you actually care? are you comfortable and insulated and don’t actually feel the impact of dem Policy? The fact that this act doesn’t disgust you speaks volumes. ‘Capitulating to the right is good actually! Only the leftists are giving up when they refuse to play by the rules set by the house! The dems are allowed, however, to do anything and everything that they want because they aren’t fascists! and we can’t criticize them because that’s the same thing as being fascist!’

When I was young and dumb, I worked on a bunch of political campaigns (gubernatorial, presidential, congressional). The thing that struck me was the number of people who didn’t give a shit about the democratic party because their lives weren’t improved by it at all, and these were not politically illiterate people. They were fully able to point to issues in their communities or in their state, what have you, that would have changed things for the better. Ask me how the political careers of those democrats went and what harm they prevented.

Math doesn’t give a shit about opinions, voting third party in our system is a losing proposition. Use it for signalling in safe districts.

Ooohh, now math doesn’t give a shit. Earlier you were giving people grief for saying their individual votes didn’t matter. So we can break out the math and realize that our individual votes don’t matter in most cases.

Voting third party is the most bare minimum basic thing people can do. If you aren’t seeing the tangible and meaningful impact that effective political organizing can achieve, then it is on you to rectify that if you truly have ideals which align with anarcho-communism. If you are saying that voting for dems is a worthwhile strategy because they are ineffectual, you can communicate that point without going whole hog defending the dems. I disagree, but it’s a more defensible position. Also, quick aside, why do you think that without meaningful socialist organizing that the leftists would take power after ineffectual dem governance? its just as likely, if not more, that the rightwing with false populism would rise to replace the dems, especially if what little organized left was shown to be in bed with the dems.

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Ohhh okay, so the dems can actually be heinous and throw trans folks under the bus but it needs to be cold and calculated and maybe pretend to be sad about it. Gotcha. As long as the calculus lines up, right?

Nah, I just don’t think any law that purports to be pro-trans necessarily is a good idea. Sometimes laws can be written poorly and not take into consideration how fascists could use it to hurt people. Have you read the law? Newsom’s response? Can you tell describe to me how it helps and how it definitely won’t backfire?

I want to be clear, I’m not a Newsom apologist, but pointing to one vote and ignoring everything else and how it would compare to a fascist admin is dishonest. https://www.gov.ca.gov/2023/09/23/governor-newsom-signs-legislation-supporting-lgbtq-californians/

Do you actually care? are you comfortable and insulated and don’t actually feel the impact of dem Policy?

I’m a trans Mexican woman, my family immigrated from Mexico, me and my family have been affected by government policy very much in good ways and bad. What about you?

The fact that this act doesn’t disgust you speaks volumes. ‘Capitulating to the right is good actually! Only the leftists are giving up when they refuse to play by the rules set by the house! The dems are allowed, however, to do anything and everything that they want because they aren’t fascists! and we can’t criticize them because that’s the same thing as being fascist!’

This is too dumb to reply to.

Ooohh, now math doesn’t give a shit. Earlier you were giving people grief for saying their individual votes didn’t matter. So we can break out the math and realize that our individual votes don’t matter in most cases.

Yes, because math matters, individual votes matter that’s why billions are spent to influence individuals by targeting groups. That’s why I’m bothering to argue with you guys, because I see y’all have empathy you’re just misled into thinking Xi and Putin (two of the richest most powerful men the world has ever seen) actually are interested in your well being. There are many MAGA people in your same situation that think Trump is interested in their well being. They’ve been told their enemy is minorities, you’ve been told your enemy is everyone not wanting to destroy America at any cost and not all about sucking Xi dick.

you can communicate that point without going whole hog defending the dems.

I’ve mentioned in my comments repeatedly that I’m an anarcho-communist and encourage voting Democrats because Democrats are conservative and conservatives are less immediately dangerous than fascists and will this will buy us time to try to actually fix things outside of electoral politics. I wouldn’t call this “whole hog endorsement”.

Voting third party is the most bare minimum basic thing people can do.

Ah, so voting is not useless huh? Great. Now just learn more about how two-party systems are traps, and we’re stuck in it. Voting third party doesn’t get you out of the trap, doesn’t break the trap. Unless there is actually MASSIVE support of this third party, the probability of that party winning is negligable, to risking harm to your comrades for that tiny chance your guy will win and the fascists won’t is a dangeros game, and I’m gonna pay the consequences personally, directly, and soon . In our system for people who want to actually end capitalism, you don’t vote FOR people, you vote AGAINST people by throwing your vote the other way. It’s effectively the only mathematical sound argument. Really, what are the chances your third party will win in a FPTP system?

Also, quick aside, why do you think that without meaningful socialist organizing that the leftists would take power after ineffectual dem governance?

Socialist organizing is pro-state. I’ve mentioned repeatedly that I think organizing is pretty much the most important way to change the future, I just don’ t think doing so in a pro-state organization will lead to the best outcome. States don’t give up power, I’m not interested in getting my guys into power, that’s the mistake of history. Nobody deserves power.

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