Comment by not_that_guy05@lemmy.world on The state of the discourse.

Using the hospital for anything other than helping people is a bottom. They are both trash entities.

And fun fact: bombing/attacking a hospital is not a war crime per the Geneva Conventions Article 52, if it is being used as a military objective.

Might be a fun fact but it is not correct. Article 52 of the fourth convention is not related to hospitals. Article 52 of the 1st additional protocol is related to hospitals and it does not mean what you are saying it does. Geneva conventions do not define war crimes, that definition is given in the ICC Rome statutes.

Fair enough. The ICC Rome Statute specifically refers to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949. But per the ICC Rome statute on war crimes, Article 8, Section 2, Subsection (b), Clause (ix), the following is a war crime: “Intentionally directing attacks against buildings dedicated to religion, education, art, science or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals and places where the sick and wounded are collected,provided they are not military objectives;”

Still the collateral damage needs to be proportional and adequate measures need to be taken to minimise civillian casualties.

So at least they would need to be able to evacuate. But Israel intentionally destroyed ambulances, cut water, electricity, fuel and communications, so it is impossible to evacuate the hospital. Israel did everything to make sure the civillian casualties will be high and that is nothing but a war crime and heinous murder.

https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-gives-hospitals-gaza-hours-evacuate

According to the Hamas propaganda Israel literally gave a one month head start on that demand when they did not control the area around the hospital.

“Israeli occupation asked the administrations of two hospitals, al-Awda and al-Quds in the north and centre of Gaza, to evacuate staff, sick people, and displaced people”.

We are talking about al-Shifa now. Your source does not support your claim.

Just stating that they are a military objective (as IDF does) does not make it so.

What about finding tunnels, weapons, bombs and having terrorists hiding and firing from within the hospital compound? Is that enough or does Hamas need to put up a sign reading “military objective” at the entrance?

I mean they DID find like 9 guns and a calendar we were told was a hostage watching schedule… so yea totally needs to be nuked just to be sure. /s

I mean, that makes a certain degree of sense, because if using protected places as a place to put one’s military operations doesn’t remove that protection, then it would become a common strategy to intentionally use vulnerable civilians as shields in that manner, and since no military is realistically going to just let their opponent attack them without a response when capable of delivering one, such a scenario would just lead to the whole idea of places like hospitals being protected being abandoned.

That’s exactly what Hamas does. No better than Al-Qaida.

Except in theory, you would want your hospitals protected regardless, even if it wasn’t a war crime to hide the military there. Because that’s where your population is vulnerable and being healed.

Using your own population as shields is just next level. Those are the people you are supposedly fighting to protect in the first place.

I don’t mean protected in a military sense, I mean protected in a legal sense, ie, assuming your opponent is bound by international law, having them forbidden from attacking those places. In a more normal conflict, it’s in the best interests of both governments to follow this sort of rule, since the military value of a hospital is (supposed to be) kept low, and each side knows that attacking medical facilities might lead to the other side doing the same in retaliation. However, this isn’t really a normal conflict, and Hamas does not act like a state (since it isn’t really, it’s a terrorist group taking on some of the roles of a state).

Oh ok phew. I didn’t know it wasn’t a war crime per the Geneva convention article 52. Keep bombing those infants, baby! Woohoo!

So glad Israel is the good guy here!

We will have to see. Both sides have all the incentive to lie.

Both populations Palestine and Israel hate their leadership and want them gone.

Israelis regularly voted Netanyahu and that even last year despite him being head over heels in dozens of currpotion scandals.

There were five hung elections in a row where he couldn’t form a majority before he was able to form this government. Israel has only ever had one majority government (that is, not a coalition of parties) from 1968-1969, well before Likud was even established and while Bibi was still serving in the military. Likud has literally never held a majority in the Knesset. How can you so ardently state that Israelis “voted Netanyahu”, especially when they’re a multiparty Westminster parliamentary representative democracy whose parliamentary leaders elect the Prime Minister? Come on, mate.

Are you implying that Israel is not a democracy and the government is not democratically legitimised?

The coalition government is formed by a majority coalition. And people know that, so in their vote they consider the possible coalitions. Also Netanyahus coalition partners are by all acounts even worse criminals, demanding genocide in Gaza, nuking Gaza, forcefully displacing allPalestinians in the Westbank etc.

There is a majority in Israel that voted the current government and by all means they knew beforehand what they would get.

I’m suggesting that saying that the fact that Netanyahu is the Prime Minister is in any way indicative that a majority of Israelis personally support him as a leader is a laughable concept. He’s not elected by popular vote; he wins his own electorate and then a majority of other people who won their electorates voted him into the job.

His party, Likud, has never held an absolute majority. Therefore, never has 50% or more of the electorate directly voted for Netanyahu or the party he represents.

After the shit-shamble of the last five elections, Israeli voters have had less idea of what coalition would form government than they ever had. Suggesting that a majority of Israelis personally endorse Netanyahu is not reasonable.

A Nov. 3 poll found 76% of Israelis want Netanyahu to resign. On Nov. 7, a leading pro-Netanyahu newspaper reversed its stance and ran an editorial calling for his ouster after the war. Polls taken last month show Netanyahu would lose if elections were held now.

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/11/1211767117/israel-netanyahu-growing-opposition-hamas-war-gaza

Both are trash but one has been killing for decades…

Ehm, both have been killing for decades. Palestine consistently had about 10x the losses Israel had.

Both are trash but one has been killing for decades…

Hm, either that is not really your point or you are remarkably bad at putting it into words.

I mean terrorism and putting innocents at risk is bad. But this comes because of almost a century of oppression and death so it is expected at this point. You defend yourself whichever way you can I guess. I am from a colony, so I know shit can get desperate.

You be the judge if I’m bad with words (spoiler: I am anyway) or if I just have a bad take.

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