Casemiro going from being over-priced questionable signing to essential part of the team to washed dead money back up has happened at a remarkable pace.
It’s happened quicker than expected, but I think most expected it to happen.
He’s a great player and will retire with a golden legacy. Asking a 30-year-old to play in an end-to-end league like the Premier League was a recipe for disaster. He did well in year one, but the team is such a mess he’s being asked to do more than he’s able.
Casemiro was always talented but also the poster boy for too good, too soon and unmotivated as fuck. I was surprised when Real Madrid bought him and even more when he excelled there, it’s unfathomable for anyone who watched him in his São Paulo days.
So not all that surprising that he fell off massively after 1) crashing out of probably his last WC and 2) moving to United lmao
Casemiro was an overpriced questionable signing precisely because of the worries of an impending drop off though?
It wasn’t like people thought he was bad, it was that people thought he was likely to regress soon
I can’t really believe it’s happened. I was lucky enough to be invited to see the Carabao Cup final last season, which Man United won, and Casemiro was brilliant. You could tell his big-game experience shone through and he was cool, calm and composed throughout, the definite MOTM. How he’s gone from that to not getting on the team sheet so quickly I don’t quite get. I guess it’s because they are trying to play a much more energy intensive style, and his game just doesn’t suit it.
It is just bewildering to me how Man United continuously sign the same flavor of player over and over again, the experienced player who’s “good enough to hold up the Man United name”, they produce 1-2 seasons of good performances and then something happens and they’re out. Happens over and over again - here with Varane and Casemiro, then there’s Eriksen, Ronaldo, Cavani, Lukaku, Matic, Mkhitaryan, Ibra, Sanchez, Di Maria, Schweinsteiger.
Note, this isn’t a list of United transfer flops, of which there are a whole lot more, but a list of the same archetype not working over and over again. You could argue that some on these list recouped some money, or that they brought value for a couple of seasons in a certain way, but that’s not the point - for a team to rise back to the top, you need a concrete plan, and repeatedly signing players without the means to succeed long-term is the opposite of the stability that’s needed for a project. You can’t build a team up if your marquee signings all get crocked/fall out/become surplus/want to leave after 1-2 seasons - there’s just no project then, no concrete plan to get back to the top, and it’s back to square one with next manager.
It’s because united has been a purely commercial club since Fergie left. Glazers didn’t care about the football. they didn’t care enough to appoint competent people for the different important roles at the club like CEO, sporting director, scouting team etc. they let fucking ed Woodward, a business man to make football decisions like signing players. Then they appointed a fucking accountant as the CEO. What do you expect? 🤷🏻
Eriksen, Cavani and Ibra were free transfers at least. Di Maria was 26 when he signed for United.
As if they haven’t signed upcoming young players like Sancho, Anthony, Pellistri, Lukaku, Pogba … to name a few. Those haven’t exactly worked out well either have they?
Maybe because it has to do something with the club itself then???
You don’t go from decade of world class to shit in a season or two.
Casemiro was never overpriced or questionable. He was valued exactly what he was worth and definitely one of the least questionable signings Manchester United has made.
Of course this was at the time of his signing.
Casemiro signing was always questionable. Letting along the obscene amount of money on a 30 y/o, the guy is pretty much the opposite of every Ten Haag football idea: a slow midfield destroyer pretty poor with his feet for a manager who strives for possession and high pressing never made sense. They basically obliged him to switch to a transitional team
29 year old DM on mega wages from Madrid is definitely questionable. I can’t ever recall a time where Madrid have gotten the short end of the stick when getting rid of one of their big stars, that alone should’ve raised question marks. Madrid are very good at assessing the level of their players
I can’t ever recall a time where Madrid have gotten the short end of the stick when getting rid of one of their big stars.
Robben, Makelele, Sneijder and Ozil (to a slightly lesser degree) all performed at a world class level after leaving Madrid.
Id say odegaard but that is with hindsight. He couldnt break into the first 11 at the time
definitely one of the least questionable signings Manchester United has made.
It’s less than 18 months since they signed him for £60m and now he’s getting binned off and yet he’s not a questionable signing? Sure thing mate.
I don’t think Casemiro is the issue. He was arguably the best CDM in the world when he signed. Granted, he was in a world class setup at Madrid where he had basically played his whole career.
But Casemiro as a player has been, overall, one of UTDs shining lights.
It’s difficult to play your best when you’re demotivated and man utd is a shambles
He was one of our most important players, he was brilliant for all of last season.
I don’t know what happened this season.
You’re speaking in retrospect while completely ignoring the fact that the dude just tried to clarify that he meant without retrospective knowledge.
Don’t think we’d have got top 4 without him. I’d imagine Champions League football is worth about that, even if we’ve crashed and burned in it.
It’s happens sometimes when you spend big on older players. People like to think that top players all stay at peak level deep into their 30s but many do tail off fast.
I actually don’t think most people think this. I think most people HOPE that top players extend their time at the top, but are well aware of the evidence that it’s unlikely.
Soccernomics has their research saying most players peak at 27 IIRC. And that seems to be commonly accepted. Hence why there are so many revelatory articles about players 30+ continuing to do well, Mo for example.
Also how Casemiro got REALLY fat in the offseason.
One would think he would try to stay in shape now he is over 30. Nope. Party all the way and pick up a lot of weight that needed to be shed really fast.
Tbh it’s really quite common for guys who’ve won everything towards the end of their careers to come back in not the best shape. They’re human after all, some players stay super motivated into their deep 30s but I don’t blame anyone who lets themself go a little bit. It’s more you don’t wanna be on the hook for lying such a player a quarter million a week cos 3 years ago he was a world beater!
It happens when you buy a player who is good at quick progressive passes, good at defense, and great with quick possessions and you have him hold the ball, be the sole pivot, and not pair him with anyone that fits him. Using him as a sole pivot is especially a problem, that doesn’t make any sense in the modern game where every good team has two pivots, much less with a player that isn’t used to it
I’ve said this many times, anyone who saw KCM play knew Casemiro barely had any on ball responsibilities.
As soon as I saw that Ten Hag was asking him to spray the ball around the pitch like prime Pirlo I knew there’d be a problem. He can give you a few good passes and dribbles but he can’t do it every game for 90 minutes, never has ever had to.
Now All of a sudden he’s “washed”, he’s far from washed imo. Any team looking for a pure destroyer type CDM, and already has good ball playing CMs would benefit him greatly. United’s other midfielders aside from Bruno are not up to standard.
Lewandowski could be headed for the thing if his form doesn’t pick up soon.
Yeah but Chelsea got him for free. Even if he had been garbage he would’ve been valuable for culture. Cavani, Thiago Silva, Zlatan, Larsson, etc all good signings. Even someone like Gary Mac for Liverpool.
If United had signed him for free they’d still be going on about how good he is. But on the flip slide Chelsea would never have spent £70m on Casemiro.
You guys are a money-no-object club, you can absolutely afford to take the gambles and pocket the wins. United are having to budget carefully for FFP and they’ve blown a fortune on transfer fee/wages here!
Everytime you mention someone over 30 might decline suddenly you are bombarded with people claiming that there’s “no way a professional like him” could decline and that sports science has gotten so advanced that it essentially trumps biology meaning there’s no reason players would decline one bit before they’re 36 at the earliest.
Which is a stupid argument. Plenty of players that look after their body just decline physically though no fault of their own in their 30s. Look at Diego Forlán. He was always in peak shape, single digit bodyfat and wanted to run for everything, known for longevity. Yet just before the 2011 Copa América when he was 32, he just fell off of a cliff at club level, didn’t score in 12 games and just did not have the legs to play in Europe anymore as a mobile striker. Sometimes it just happens, players decline regardless of how well they look after their body. No one can beat farther time. Jordan Henderson is another example, be was declining for years before leaving Liverpool, despite always being in tip top shape.
This subreddit and other social media were hilarious when they signed them. Like it’s logical to question the merits of spending that much on players of that age. Sure there’s some who have held off their declines, but the majority of players dip at a certain age. For the money United spent, they could have bought far better long term options.
Many people often also ignore the human element of this. They think footballers are robots like in their games of FIFA on PS5. There are so many examples of footballers losing their drive to stay at peak performance or who want to move onto other interests.
Yup! I remember getting attacked here for questioning the value of Casemiro at his age/price/contract cos who wants to believe that a player they like might decline soon. Was the same with Peresic who everyone assured me would be a wonderful wingback adapting to PL aged 33!!!
It’s a real minority who play deep into their 30s, handing out big contracts to such players should be done with real care and scrutiny unless you are a monopoly money club then whatever gamble away!
Players decline nobody ever denies that
Casemrio was great 4 months ago so was Varane
The difference is team doing bad so you say this, it’s not about age it’s more about team performance
I just gave an example of Xhaka, do u think prime Xhaka was worse than 30 year old Xhaka? Or was it fans scapegoating due to club performances
No it doesn’t
It happens with young players too
Rashfor goes from shit to world class regularly, AWB went from shit to essential to shit
Many other United players and other team players as well, why? Because fans have the memory of a gold fish and when team does bad they do this
Rashford and AWB examples are fluctuations in form, an inherent lack of consistency, and/or fit with the manager’s tactics and what the squad needs. This is different than an age-related decline in quality when a player hits a point where their experience and knowledge of the game is no longer able to make up for the loss of athleticism.
Outside of significant injuries, it’s rare that a good player hits their peak in their early-mid 20s and can never get back to that. A lot will reach their potential and stop developing but they don’t go backwards. That’s why it’s so surprising and attracts attention when it does happen, e.g. Dele.
Rashford’s a budget player who turns it on for 7 months when a contract is on the line. Xhaka grew as a player when his role was adapted to provide him better cover to make up for his lack of pace and somewhat questionable defensive instincts. Casemiro has just gotten old after being consistent forever.
Younger players who function better in one system or another or others who turn it on at pinch points in their career are not the same as older player going over the hill.
Speaking of Rashford, he only gives a shit when he wants a new contract lol
