PHOENIX (AP) – The 2024 presidential election is drawing an unusually robust field of independent, third party and long shot candidates hoping to capitalize on Americans’ ambivalence and frustration over a likely rematch between Democrat Joe Biden and Republican Donald Trump.
Don’t vote for a third party. That’s just voting for Trump with extra steps.
I think a lot of people thinking about voting third party are going to need reasons TO vote for someone, not reasons to not vote for the other guy. Telling them “it’s just voting for Trump” isn’t going to convince them.
And no, I’m not planning on voting third party. But finger-wagging won’t convince anyone already looking elsewhere.
If a Trump presidency doesn’t scare the shit out of them at this point, then they were already looking for excuses to support him, and “I want someone to vote FOR” is just a stupid excuse.
Like, I want a gazillion dollars and a private island, but I also don’t smear shit on the walls of the public library when I wake up and don’t get those things. Anyone who does, just wanted to smear shit on the walls.
I haven’t seen Dark Brandon in a while. Like, months.
I vote FOR Dark Brandon. I’ll give Biden my vote over Trump. Those are different things, even if the objective measure looks the same.
I’d like to vote for DB and get him.
Anyone not terrified of a Republican and/or Trump presidency has a shitton of privilege and needs to fucking check it. Cishet, white and men are prominent demographics for “he won’t hurt me too badly” and by the time the redcaps come for those not in lockstep it’ll be far, far too late.
In other words lots of people have an incredibly childish attitude about voting and are completely prepared to throw a little tantrum in the voting booth even if it means fascists get to take over the whole federal government. I’m becoming pretty convinced that people like that are just incapable of rational decision making.
It’s crazy how people view voting. In life we have so many situations where we look at realistic options and choose the best thing, or even the least bad thing, from those options.
But then with voting people feel like making their vote should be like wishing on a birthday cake. It’s totally irrational, as you say.
lots of people have an incredibly childish attitude about voting and are completely prepared to throw a little tantrum in the voting booth even if it means fascists get to take over the whole federal government. I’m becoming pretty convinced that people like that are just incapable of rational decision making.
i would believe you were talking about people voting for republicans or people voting for democrats. everyone else is trying to avoid a further slide into fascism.
Nah, the number one reason to vote lately is to prevent Trump from pissing all over democracy. Even Republicans are joining in.
So voting for the uniparty that picked the candidate for you is democracy?
It’s gonna be republicans making a protest vote. Democrats are in lock step for once
Republicans are all for third party candidates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election
Telling them “it’s just voting for Trump” isn’t going to convince them.
They also use that argument against people who don’t show up to vote – the very same people who might show up for a candidate they want to vote for.
In other words, despite conventional wisdom to the contrary, they might not vote for a two-party candidate anyway.
There are people who, despite the entirety of human history, fail to take into account that people aren’t always rational. In fact, they’re deeply offended by the suggestion and become hostile towards anyone who suggests that they should take this into account, even in situations in which the consequences for failing to do so are dire.
How about this… don’t take a guy who quietly supports genocide, whose been part of politics longer than I’ve been alive- in fact he’s been a senator for more than twice as long as I’ve been a voter- and make him the canidate.
Because, under your argument, that’s just giving voted to trump!!!
“Vote blue no matter who” is an argument that presupposes a good canidate is in office. Biden is not a good candidate; and the dems need to find somebody else to run him.
We saw the same problem with Hilary. Hilary was not a good canidate and in no way was actually capable of winning. You made the same arguments then as now.
You know Biden is going to lose votes. Why the fuck are you unwilling to consider someone else?
Do whatever the fuck you want to do, bro. When the day comes, you’ll have one of several bubbles to fill out, and you’ll make the choice you were gonna make anyway. Either you vote strategically for whoever has the best chance to ensure Trump doesn’t make it anywhere near the White House, or you vote for whoever makes you feel good, knowing Trump might win. If a second Trump presidency doesn’t scare you now, it won’t do anything different in a year. If Biden’s the nominee, I’ll crawl through a mine field covered in broken glass to vote for him. If he’s not, I’ll do the same for whoever the party nominates to replace him.
Hopefully enough others will vote anyway out of a sense of duty, but non-enthusiastic energy for a candidate will keep some people from going out to vote at all. That is actually a third default choice that takes no energy to do.
Biden is a good candidate. He hasn’t been impeached yet, unlike his competitor during this same time in his term; he hasn’t started a coup on his own country, and the fact that he’s experienced at the job he’s applying to is actually a good thing (displayed by the passing of both the CHIPs act and the IRA despite not having complete control of congress). Hilary was actually a significantly better candidate than Trump(very obvious in hindsight for many), but Trump had the advantage of Russian support and the fact that it was uncertain how he would act as president. Once voters found out how Trump is as a president, they turned away from him in droves as evidenced by the fact that he’s the first president to lose reelection in 20 years, and Republicans have lost every election since Trump was voted in.
Biden ain’t perfect, but man he’s a huge upgrade compared to Trump.
Biden is a good candidate. He hasn’t been impeached yet
…the bar is in hell.
Yeah he’s better than a literal facist who is currently making Nazi speeches and has promised to jail all his political opponents. What an incredibly high bar for Biden to stumble over!
Having your party position be “Bite your tongue and vote for our shit candidate to prevent the end of democracy” is not a winning position. It’s a terrible strategy guaranteed to lead to less voter turnout.
Biden is a good candidate. He hasn’t been impeached yet, unlike his competitor during this same time in his term; he hasn’t started a coup on his own country, and the fact that he’s experienced at the job he’s applying to is actually a good thing (displayed by the passing of both the CHIPs act and the IRA despite not having complete control of congress). Hilary was actually a significantly better candidate than Trump(very obvious in hindsight for many), but Trump had the advantage of Russian support and the fact that it was uncertain how he would act as president. Once voters found out how Trump is as a president, they turned away from him in droves as evidenced by the fact that he’s the first president to lose reelection in 20 years, and Republicans have lost every election since Trump was voted in.
Biden ain’t perfect, but man he’s a huge upgrade compared to Trump.
lets break that down a bit here. your argument is in 3 parts:
- Biden is not Trump
- Biden is “experienced”
- and Biden managed to take care of business.
Point one applies to literally every one whose not trump; and even if go so far as to be ‘not-trump-like’, that would include a fair number of Republicans, too. It’s not an argument that should be seriously made when deciding who the Democratic candidate should be… because it’s pretty much a given.
Point two… that’s also an argument against. He’s been in the senate for longer than I’ve been alive. We need change. we don’t need the same washed up and tired ideas. Biden’s functional policies have only grudgingly changed. for example, if he wanted to legalize weed, he could have. He could have chosen to not open up Willow Project- like he had (indirectly) promised to not do. further, he’s only had what? 12 years experience in the excecutive branch? and 8 as second fiddle. his record there is pretty uninspiring, to be honest. You’re welcome to disagree.
point three- has Biden accomplished a lot? compared to trump? absolutely. Trump left this country in a shambles and Biden helped pick up the pieces. Helped- he was far from alone in that. and the CHIPS act is largely a no-brainer bill. same goes for the IRA and the infrastructure act. before trump came to office, all of them would have been hailed as modest bits of normalcy. Big bills? sure. Important? absolutely. but nothing worth bragging about.
It should be noted that most VBNW-type people are only pushing the first argument. Which is intellectually dishonest and a scare tactic. Virtually any one capable of being the democratic canidate is not trump, and is a far cry from trumpism. especially the actual progressives. we can talk about what Biden has done, and his policy decisions and where he’s propelled the country to. but from where I sit, most of his accomplishments are full of half measures.
Like, he kept the ship from listing more, and he’s bailing his hardest, but, the ship ain’t righting and it’s still leaking.
Why the fuck are you unwilling to consider someone else?
Is this your first election? Incumbency advantage and name recognition. Anyone who understands that and continues to make excuses to not vote for Biden is a Trump supporter. Either intentionally or through sheer privileged ignorance.
Anyone who understands that and continues to make excuses to not vote for Biden is a Trump supporter. Either intentionally or through sheer privileged ignorance. Save your preaching for the full election next year. After which I will be angrily telling you I said so.
missing the point, and instead going straight to the fucking insults. POINT: Biden as a candidate sucks. nobody is saying Biden is actually their preferred candidate. he’s deeply unpopular and becoming increasingly so, and yet, you’re sitting here blaming people WARNING you about that… instead of maybe shopping around for another candidate- IN THE FREAKING PRIMARIES?
we’re winding up for another repeat of 2016, because people like you won’t get off their fucking high horse and actually listen to people. and you have the fucking gall to accuse ME of sheer privileged ignorance. Incidentally, I’ve had his exact same conversation with people, only about Hilary.
Oh and your point about incumbency… yeah, that’s increasingly becoming the millstone about his neck, Biden is far from the best, and he could be using what little positive influence he has now for supporting another candidate- LIKE HE FREAKING PROMISED LAST TIME.
Your choice is between President Biden, who has been a good President or the Antichrist. There isn’t anyone else running that is worth my time to look at. Your argument should wait until 2028 when Pete Buttigieg is the top candidate. Probably the most intelligent member of the Federal Government right there.
Appeal to fear is a logical fallacy and marketing gimmick.
We can and should do better. All I hear is “You’ll vote the way we tell you, and you’ll like it.”
To which my only response is “Okay, Boomer.”
