lemm.ee

3 points

10 months ago

Incredibly loaded framing aside, what’s your explanation for Israel backing a Jihadist group, and helping them displace moderate, secular alternatives while consistently using genocidal language and displacing Palestinians?

report

[ - ]

rdri@lemmy.world

-2 points

10 months ago

I’d say it’s not loaded framing on my side, but convoluted assumptions (and possibly clairvoyance) on the other.

I may not have the explanation of why “Israel funded hamas”, but I know that half the world funded Palestine for years, and that most of that help naturally must’ve went through hamas.

Simply put, it doesn’t seem like Israel could avoid funding Palestine. Hamas could’ve put that money in improving lives of citizens.

report

[ - ]

1 point

10 months ago

Israel put a terrorist org that’s hostile to them in neighbouring territories they’re trying to ethnically cleanse via genocide and you can’t figure it why? I suppose critical thought was never fascists’ strong suit.

International funding went to Palestinians via aid orgs - not Hamas. That said, anything that did go to Hamas was because Israel put them in power - you don’t get to put terrorists in power, commit war crimes, then whine when the international community sends aid to the people you’re genociding. Israel is also a recipient of $3.8 billion dollars every year in US military support alone - that’s comparable to the total amount of internal aid sent to Palestine between 2014 and 2020.

The problem isn’t Israel funding Palestine - it’s with them funding a terrorist group to put them in power, removing the secular moderates that were in place already… You know - so they could justify the genocide they’ve been loudly telegraphing they want to commit.

You don’t get to play the victim on this one, Jitler.

report

[ - ]

rdri@lemmy.world

-1 points

10 months ago

Israel put a terrorist org

What?

it’s with them funding a terrorist group to put them in power

And I thought it was Palestinians who chose hamas during elections. The other candidate was also a terrorist group if I’m not mistaken though, so really don’t see how complicated the plan of Israel should’ve been for everything to play out exactly as it had.

so they could justify the genocide they’ve been loudly telegraphing they want to commit.

So basically the plan was “Kill us, so we could kill you” all along, huh? This is some flat earth level conspiracy.

report

[ - ]

1 point

10 months ago

Hamas is a terrorist org that Israel backed to replace the secular moderates - this isn’t half as complex as the narrative knots you idiots tie yourselves in to defend the genocide - in not sure why you’re finding this difficult.

So basically the plan was “Kill us, so we could kill you” all along, huh? This is some flat earth level conspiracy.

They’ve been signalling genocidal intent for years, but can’t just do it without losing the US backing they need to not get obliterated by their neighbours. Why else did they help the hostile jihadists over the secular moderates? Again, really straightforward stuff.

Meanwhile, you use Nazi-tier logic to defend Nazi-tier actions.

report

[ - ]

rdri@lemmy.world

0 points

10 months ago

Again, really straightforward stuff.

First, the whole matter of some country being able to affect political groups in another country being normal, as you’re saying about it, is more than lousy to say the least. Israel did not create hamas. Israel could not know how it will act over the years. Israel could not know who will win the elections.

Second, proposing the idea that a modern non-jihad government would put their own population at risk of terrorist attacks in order to have a chance to do genocide of other population is ridiculous.

Third, if the “second” thing above is incorrect, they would instead fiddle with the iron dome. More specifically, there would be no iron dome in the first place - they would take all the rocket hits they could in order to show the world how aggressive terrorists are and invade Gaza asap.

you use Nazi-tier logic to defend Nazi-tier actions.

I don’t know what to say here. What nazi-tier even means is beyond me. But you here basically operate with extremes like every actor does exactly what they are programmed to do. It seems to me that even if some investigation will conclude that Israel, in fact, did not intent to fund any specific group, you’ll still find new twists in order to make Israel guilty of what hamas did.

report

[ - ]

1 point

10 months ago

Israel did not create hamas. Israel could not know how it will act over the years.

Noone said Israel created Hamas - but for them not to realise that they would be openly hostile to Israel given their rhetoric would represent a literally unbelievable level of incompetence on Israel’s part. Dumb and/or dishonest.

Israel could not know who will win the elections.

They threw enough money at Hamas to help them successfully win the election. Not a guarantee, but a definite finger on the scale. Dumb and dishonest.

Second, proposing the idea that a modern non-jihad government would put their own population at risk of terrorist attacks in order to have a chance to do genocide of other population is ridiculous.

A few of hundred Israelis traded for the extermination of the Palestinians and the annexation of their territory is implausible to you? Just about any force that’s conducted an annexation has paid a greater price than this - look at Russia right now. Israel aren’t Islamic, so jihadist isn’t a great characterisation, but they’re theocratic and genocidal - a distinction without a meaningful difference. Dumb and/or dishonest.

they would instead fiddle with the iron dome.

Why? It works well enough, and they haven’t bothered to invest further in it with Hamas in power and years of rocket attacks? Seems as though Netanyahu isn’t too concerned about a few hundred Israeli deaths, no? Dumb or dishonest.

What nazi-tier even means is beyond me

A far-right wing fascist ethnostate doing warcrimes and genocidal bullshit. Dumb and dishonest.

What did these Israeli government representatives mean when they said…

Prime Minister Netanyahu

They (Israel/IDF) are committed to completely eliminating this evil from the world,”

and

You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember.

and

I don’t call them human animals because that would be insulting to animals

“Defence” minister Galant

We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly

Kallner…

Nakba to the enemy now! This day is our Pearl Harbour. We will still learn the lessons. Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 48. A Nakba in Gaza and a Nakba for anyone who dares to join!

Atbaryan…

erasing all of Gaza from the face of the Earth. Gaza needs to be wiped out.

Halevi…

goals for this victory. One, there is no more Muslim land in the land of Israel. After we make it the land of Israel, Gaza should be left as a monument, like Sodom.”

In case you don’t remember your Torah, here’s a refresher on the Amalekites… I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

You’re not convincing anyone, Rudolph Jitler.

report