lemm.ee

-1 points

9 months ago

Do you believe Pelosi that the protests against the genocide in Gaza are a Russian op too? 🙄

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lennybird@lemmy.world

0 points

9 months ago

I believe two things can be true at the same time.

I better clarify this because I suspect reading-comprehension isn’t one’s forte. The two points:

Russia is taking advantage of this event to smear the US to its own end goals, and
Israel is committing genocide in Gaza

… Are not mutually-exclusive.

But I’m not expecting much from someone who wrote gems like:

Liberals in America are just right wing anti-communists, they’re not leftists at all. As for Bernie, social-democracy is the moderate wing of fascism and that’s why he supports Biden’s genocide.

Both parties are evil because this is an evil country that must be stopped.

But I’m quite serious about hating America. No one should be president and we should do everything possible to make that a reality.

Anyway — more emoticons, please; they exemplify your class!

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-6 points

9 months ago

Okay, so consider these things also being true:

Russia, like everyone else, interferes in US politics to some extent: the NRA campaign funding scheme, individuals leaking info to Russia, etc.
The US ruling class smears all of its class enemies with imaginary connections to Russia for political gains, regardless of truth.
Again, Russia isn’t alone in interference. Every corporation does it, Israel does it, the EU does it, every bank and billionaire does it, etc. American politics are pay-to-play.

Also? You aren’t at work, your boss isn’t reading this. Use emojis, have fun, embrace the lower classes 😘

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lennybird@lemmy.world

2 points

9 months ago

Russia has, by the overwhelming evidence, interfered the most in recent history. Casting it off as, “bUt EVEryOnE DoES iT” doesn’t stop us from recognizing the chief offender.
That seems awfully convenient. Though when state secrets are leaked to Russia and said individuals flee to Russia, those connections… Well, they’re tangible and in plain-sight.
Repeating your first point regarding whataboutism – kinda of strange – is a race-to-the-bottom mindset. Admission that Russia does interfere only lends credence to my points. Neither does “many countries interfere!” make it right.

Such a peculiar cognitive dissonance between:

“Russia does routinely interfere with US Politics and yes many people have been caught up in it.”

and

“The US Bourgouise just use Russia to smear its enemies!”

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-6 points

9 months ago

Russia has, by the overwhelming evidence, interfered the most in recent history.

I want a source for this. What I know is that Russia spent $300 million since 2014 to influence foreign elections. That’s a lot of money! But, spread that out over multiple countries and multiple election cycles and it seems very clear that Russia has not interfered the most. The 2024 presidential race has, so far, already surpassed $300 million. What it looks like is Russia, like every oil&gas company, influences US elections. It’s bad, it’s not special.

US’s elections are pay-to-play thanks to clownish Supreme Court decisions like Buckley v. Valeo (which found that money is speech and limiting speech is a violation of the 1st amendment), the Bennett decision (which found that public campaign financing is unconstitutional because it dilutes the value of private spending and thus private “speech”) and, of course, the Citizens United decision which I’m sure you’re already familiar with. We have a problem and blaming it all on Russia is unserious.

Also, in the course of looking things up for this argument, did you know that AIPAC is set to spend more than $100 million this election cycle to defeat US candidates opposed to the genocide in Gaza. In one election! In one country!

That seems awfully convenient. Though when state secrets are leaked to Russia and said individuals flee to Russia, those connections… Well, they’re tangible and in plain-sight.

You’re talking about Snowden? State secrets were leaked to the world and then he fled to Russia to avoid going to US prison. That doesn’t really imply he leaked secrets on behalf of Russia, merely that Russia was willing to shelter him for political gain.

Repeating your first point regarding whataboutism – kinda of strange – is a race-to-the-bottom mindset. Admission that Russia does interfere only lends credence to my points. Neither does “many countries interfere!” make it right.

When did I ever say anything about it being right? My only point is that Russia isn’t unique and blaming everything on Russia is 🤡

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lennybird@lemmy.world

1 point

9 months ago

It’s amazing what you can do when your Ruble is worth a penny to the US Dollar; to have spent that much money relative to Russia’s economy is quite substantial, really. Besides, it wouldn’t take that many Russian trolls paid cheaply to yield an impact, as our own department of justice said. But regardless, the evidence speaks for itself – for I inquire: Is there anyone you know of who has spent more or is of a greater concern to Federal agencies? Good luck with that.

Sure, Buckley v. Valeo, SpeechNow vs. FEC, Citizens United – I don’t disagree these are monumental issues just the same. None legalized foreign interference, however. So I’m not sure what the point is you’re trying to make. Why should we downplay Russia’s outsized influence fanning the flames of right-wing extremism in America (Funny, The Base right-wing militia leader fled to Russia, too) and clearly taking a page out of what Nazis did exactly during in 1930s America? Besides, we can walk and chew bubble-gum at the same time.

Also, in the course of looking things up for this argument, did you know that AIPAC is set to spend more than $100 million this election cycle to defeat US candidates opposed to the genocide in Gaza. In one election! In one country!

I agree, that is terrible.

You’re talking about Snowden? State secrets were leaked to the world and then he fled to Russia to avoid going to US prison. That doesn’t really imply he leaked secrets on behalf of Russia, merely that Russia was willing to shelter him for political gain.

Either way, Russia benefits. I don’t have much sympathy and don’t view him as some noble martyr when you flee to country with objectively-worse human rights and corruption records but we may just have to agree to disagree on this. Still I can simultaneously recognize the merit of what he leaked as being productive for domestic dialogue and the debate of privacy vs. security.

When did I ever say anything about it being right? My only point is that Russia isn’t unique and blaming everything on Russia is 🤡

Where did I say I blamed “everything” on Russia?

And sure, Russia may not be unique, but it’s by far the biggest fish in that category until proven otherwise. (China likely second).

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-8 points

9 months ago

Is there anyone you know of who has spent more or is of a greater concern to Federal agencies?

The Biden Victory Fund was over $650 million. That’s just one political action fund for 2020, just for a single candidate.

The Trump Make America Great Again Committee? Over $880 million, for one candidate, in one election.

The Republican National Committee: $320 million in 2020

ActBlue: $350 million in 2020

Please, Russia is a gas station with guns. They’re not primarily responsible for America being a shithole.

Also, please remember, that’s not Russia spending $300 million in America alone. That’s spread out all over the world. It’s also not in any one year, it’s spread out over several election cycles! In all likelihood their focus on America is over half of that total fund, but not much more than that. They have a lot of fingers in a lot of pies and it’s absurd to claim they’re the worst offender in American elections.

when you flee to country with objectively-worse human rights and corruption records

That’s just wrong. America has a higher prisoner-per-capita ratio and kills far more people. Russia isn’t good, but America is literally the greater evil. Gaza vs Ukraine puts this into stark relief. One is an illegal war. That’s bad! One is a genocidal extermination campaign. That’s clearly worse! Yet, America has no problem with funding the genocide as long as it takes.

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