I’m of the opposite opinion. The offline part doesn’t work because ios deletes web data after a week. So the pwa will work if you’re just out of range but isn’t a replacement for an actual factual app store thing.

Once the eu ruling that lets other browser engines into the os takes effect, there will be nothing stopping pwa developers from bundling their own versions of chrome or Mozilla in their pwas and doing all kinds of stuff that was gated off before because the pwa had to work within the safari sandbox.

How often will an os update have to be pushed just to keep the various privacy checks and whatnot on ios current with third party browsers?

Apples gonna have to put pwas in Users Chosen Browser jail to be able to keep em on the platform at all.

Tbh, I’d take pick your own browser but lose pwas any day.

I mean, you can come up with attacks that exploit a users behavior when they think they’re being careful but just consider the propensity to allow camera or location access in browser versus in app: when it’s in browser the phone request says “this website wants to use your location” and gives you the option. When it’s in app the phone (at least used to, I don’t think I have any pwas anymore) says “app_name wants to use your location”.

Everyone trusts the app more. We all see that some website wants to track us and think “yeah right, and then bundle that and sell it!” But for better or worse we trust the applications more. It’s not reflective of actual secure procedures but it’s how people act.

You made another comment about how specifically the webkit jail is very secure. It’s pretty good. That security is exactly why apples trying to tighten up the leash on pwas. One of the only reasons they’ve been able to keep em in and still say “oh we’re so secure” is because they know what the os will allow and what the browser will allow and what’s allowed to be on the os.

This is all happening right after the eu said they gotta allow other browser engines so that’s one of the three legs of that security structure. I think a lot of what we’re seeing is in preparation for pwas to try and start bundling browser engines or targeting the behavior of non webkit engines (not even in like a security targeting way, like build targeting). Once that happens it doesn’t matter how perfectly the security structures of ios and webkit link up, the leaks between ios and gecko or chromium are the new top priority.

Another concerning aspect about having pwas on other engines is how deeply security practices are integrated into ios. It’s got a bunch of little screens and settings and doohickies and gewgaws meant to make otherwise hard to comprehend security ideas not just easy to understand but easy to address.

How can those user facing controls and whatnot be kept up to date in the face of more browser engines far outside the control of the developers making them?

We do everything over the web nowadays and I’m not so sure the second biggest target needs to get exposed more.

@bloodfart @kilgore_trout

“WebKit’s sandbox profile on iOS is orders of magnitude more stringent than the sandbox for native iOS apps.” 😁 direct quote from Apple

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/62277271d3bf7f158779fe39/Apple_11.3.22.pdf