I voted for Biden in 2020. This was despite the fact that he is one of the main architects of modern American slavery through his crime bill which made the US the nation with the highest proportion of its own citizens imprisoned by far, who are quite literally slaves according to our constitution. This was despite him participating in the lies which caused us to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis in our pursuit of blowing up Halliburton’s stock value and taking control of large parts of the oil trade. This was despite his support of the neoliberal consensus which has lead to the deterioration of the economic, social, and physical health of the average American while the wealthiest’s share of the economy continues to grow meaninglessly. In fact, it was relatively easy for me to vote for Biden because the person he was running against was Trump who demonstrated worse tendencies on all of the above (while actually softening some prison laws, still fostered the increased social acceptability of acting according to blatant racism so I can’t even give him credit here) and more. According to my utilitarian principles, the evil choice I made was morally superior to the evil choice I did not make. Recent events have me re-considering this motivation.
To be clear, my opinion of Trump has not changed. Under Trump, I am sure I will be more likely to lose my loved ones or even my own life, although I am personally less at risk than his main targets. I am also sure that his influence would at least maintain if not increase the atrocities committed by the Likud-lead Isreali government with whom he has a strong relationship. Christian Nationalism is extraordinarily dangerous and if some of their desires are pushed through there’s really no telling the extent of future horrors we may have to deal with. If Project 2025 has a certain degree of success we may consider any pretense of democracy to be nullified. If I were only considering the immediate consequences of my decision, I would still support Genocide Joe.
I phrased that last sentence like that intentionally and it is the inspiration for this essay. The lesser of two evils in this case is now facilitating a genocide and I think that’s significant. In 2020 I didn’t think I had a red line which would cause me to allow a greater evil, and within the last few months I’m coming to find that I do have a red line I have to consider in and of itself and that line is genocide.
This is what I find particularly frustrating when I try to engage this topic in good faith, even among Biden supporters who are lucid about recognizing what is clearly happening before their eyes with their implicit support. Yes, they tell me, there is a lot they don’t like about Biden but he is the better choice. There is some equivalence implied here. Biden is guilty of a lot of things like union busting, failure to support a public option despite promises, the continuation of many unfair border policies, and oh yeah genocide too. I really want to emphasize that we are talking about the categorization and systematic elimination of a group of people from their homes which could not be happening as it is now happening without the economic and political support of the Biden administration. This is now among the issues we are telling Democrats we are ok with or not ok with via the use of the only political currency left to us being our votes.
“Vote Blue No Matter Who” is a phrase that made me sick the first time I heard it and I have only grown to detest it more, especially since I acted according to it it through my actions in 2020. Recently I realized that this is less of a call to action and more of a threat. More explicitly, this phrase can be understood as “Vote for our candidate or the Republicans will fuck you up.” We better pay up or they can’t be responsible for what happens to us. Like other organizations who make threats like this, by paying up we are supporting them in what they do even if it’s under duress. As long as their heavy, the Republican party, is out there fucking people up the Democrats have license do anything as long as it’s not as bad. The DNC made a hard right-wing shift with Clinton and have been moving right since then, just not as far as the Republicans have. This is where damage control has gotten us. Democrats have pushed through so many boundaries and now we’re at genocide. Now the promise is, “You better support our genocide, or the Republicans will make it worse and fuck you up too.”
What is going to happen if we tell the Democrats that even though they are facilitating a genocide, we’re still going to pay up? What is the message the DNC will read from that? What precedent is going to be set? Are we going to be safer now that genocide will be seen as something we can compromise on? Do we really believe that Trump is the worst threat they can make, or that the lesser of two evils couldn’t eventually be worse than Trump? Do we really think by making this compromise here, on top of all the compromises we’ve made over the last few decades, that after this time everything will suddenly change and we can start talking about making average peoples’ lives better for once?
I can’t responsibly ask these questions without recognizing that the threat is very real. I am not an accelerationist and I do not desire the further deterioration of our society in hopes of a positive outcome through violent revolution. I do not want to have to risk imprisonment and death to resist government persecution. I recognize that a breakdown of democracy and subsequent shift to political violence would only advantage those most equipped for and skilled in the use of violence, whose society of nails would be governed by hammers.
It seems to me that failing to support the Democrats this cycle puts us at greater immediate risk of the above, and that is shocking enough to bring most reasonable people under control. The thing is though, I think that by leaving genocide on the table for anyone across the Overton window of elected officials to consider as a socially acceptable tool is a far greater risk in the long term.
I think that by making genocide just another issue of managing how much we can tolerate among the two sides, making it something that is tolerable under some circumstances, or especially encouraging the thinking that the charge of genocide is conditional on the political expediency of it victims, we are ultimately normalizing the general idea that genocide is an acceptable tool for elected officials across our “political spectrum” of right wing and big tent(right wing, centrist, some left wing) to support or even employ in the worst case as long as they call it something else regardless of international law. If this is ok, what is the next boundary the Democrats will push? I want to stop digging the hole we’re in now, suffer the consequences, and deal with Democrats who at least understand they will not get elected if they facilitate genocide. Honestly I’d like one day to not have to make the least evil choice and have the opportunity to support something after the DNC primary, and it doesn’t seem like damage control is leading us in that direction at all but away from it.
In practical immediate terms, Trump is hated outside of his base and has demonstrated that his endorsement is poison to politicians who are not himself more often than not. He is dangerous, but inspires so much more opposition to himself and his ideas than any other candidate I can think of. I even think that Trump’s genocide is going to be received very differently than Biden’s genocide since Trump will be far less tactful and far more honest about his motivations. The worst case scenario is possible under Trump and I don’t think it’s ok to dismiss that, but it is by no means a guarantee that Trump is the one to lead average Americans into fascism. It is a fucking frightening risk allowing a greater evil through inaction, but I think it’s the actual least bad option this time.
I’m open to being challenged on or discuss anything I’ve said here in good faith. I’m also open to rage-induced teardowns of the ideas I’ve proposed here as long as those teardowns are against my ideas and not against me as a person or others who are sympathetic to these ideas. I understand that this is an extremely charged topic and would like to encourage honest conversation as long as it doesn’t bleed into abuse which won’t help anyone.
Edit: Whew, that was some important discussion. I hope it was clear that my intention was to clarify my thinking and explore different perspectives on my argument rather than me judging others for coming to different conclusions or trying to convince everyone I am sure I am absolutely correct. Importantly, I realized this entire argument is secondary. What is important now is direct action. Depending on the degree of success we have with disrupting this sick order, this whole conversation could become moot and that is my strongest desire. See y’all on the street.
You basically echoed perfectly my feelings on this all. I think your observation, that many people (especially Centrist Dems) are myopically focusing on Trump as the only force driving us towards fascism, is spot on.
I do not want Trump to be elected over Biden, and I will not under any circumstances vote for Trump, but I have decided that I’m not going to take part in a system that forces me to endorse a candidate, via my vote, who will further a genocide.
Democracy is supposed to be about political representation and the ability of the citizenry to direct the government, and that’s not what we have here in the US. My politics are not represented by Biden or Trump, and I won’t be coerced into actively aiding and abetting a genocide.
Others may have a different line in the sand. This is mine.
Congratulations, by not voting for Biden none of your politics are being represented and you’re helping Trump get elected.
As a bonus, by helping Trump get elected you’ll be actively aiding and abetting whatever Trump decides to do, which I’m sure will be great for the people in Gaza.
But you’re not crossing your line in the sand so I’m sure you’ll sleep well at night knowing you stuck to your guns.
By voting for Biden, none of my politics are being represented anyways.
And please, explain to me how my not voting for Biden helps Trump get elected. Be specific.
I’m not them and I’m not going to give details, but I’d like to posit why I personally am against the idea of not voting. First though, this has nothing to do with you or how I feel about your stance here, I’m not trying to attack you or change your mind, I’m simply expressing my thoughts about how I participate as a U.S. citizen. To me, voting is pretty much the bare minimum - our roles as citizens of the United States pretty much designates us to do this one thing.
So you don’t vote. You say something about it and why, gives someone else an idea to do the same. Word gets out and your entire town decides to have solidarity with you. The rippling effect of you being an active non-voter is potentially harmful. At it’s core, that’s all it really is.
I could go on, but it would be redundant. You are still participating, something seen by others who then may decide to also do it that way, which completely strips your power as a citizen. I do believe it serves it up on a silver platter to something you don’t agree with ideologically. As you said, you don’t agree with Biden’s ideology, which I agree with. I’m glad he’s attempted student loan relief and puts pledges towards national hunger, further encouraged policies that give more $$ towards earnings up to $55k (under Obama, initially $47k, lowered to $35k under Trump), and surprisingly getting involved in the situation happening in Rwanda and not completely butchering it. He’s done some solid actions, even if there are just as many things (maybe more) than I could be disappointed by.
But you are still participating, regardless of whether you want to or not. That does leave you 2 alternatives, which is to abstain, or to vote with someone with an even greater ideological difference. As a U.S. citizen, there is no way for us to not participate.
I think it’s fairly circumstantial from there. You not voting for any ideology is making a choice that you are complacent with either one, when in reality you are abstaining specifically because you are against them. Whether you not voting actually affects something outside of your single vote is relative. As in - in that hypothetical where you saying you won’t vote gets someone else to do the same, it goes both ways where they could have voted D/R/ or 3rd party. We are a social creature and there is some inherent value to sharing. Again, whether this is the reality or not is strongly related to where you are and who/how you interact.
So for me personally, few of my values are supported by voting for Biden, however none of my values are supported by abstaining, none are supported by voting R, and, this is most important, none of my values are supported by me being silent. You aren’t being represented by abstaining either. That is to say - I am in the exact same position as you, yet I choose to vote for a lesser evil because as I do it I am also campaigning for proper humanitarian values, campaigning for a future that will actually serve me and our people. By involving myself in it I am having a conversation with other people participating in our situation. They inform me, I inform them, and we may or may not come to similar conclusions based off these interactions.
Abstaining never gives this conversation the light of day. It’s the equivalent to sticking your head in the sand, because the unfortunately sick reality is that the war machine will keep the meat grinder going regardless of whether you choose to participate, which is exactly the reason why we must participate. By abstaining not only are we acknowledging all of the shortcomings but we are explicitly saying, “I’m okay with this and I am choosing not to do anything about it.” I think this gets said so often specifically because you do have an alternative, which is participating politically. It should always be read as get involved locally, because obviously you or I have little actual impact on these candidates - that’s never been the point. The point is to engage with other people living under the same responsibility.
Finally, when posed with an impossible choice, abstaining is an attempt to remove oneself from responsibility. We have to face these challenges head on, in broad daylight, surrounded by our peers. Else we sweep it under the rug for the next generation to deal with.
I’m the generation that had climate change swept under the rug, that had the U.S. destabilization of the Middle East and Africa, and some thousand or so corporate secrets from gas and oil spills teflon and xenophobia. I’m at the point in my life where I would like to do my best to ensure the rug is cleaned out. Our wars are more public than ever, our knowledge of climate change is more prevalent than ever, and our awareness of corporate profits in name of human health is higher than ever. I would like to continue this transparency by actively electing a candidate that will acknowledge the shortcomings of our country so that it can become a better place.
No, Biden will not be the one to do this, but his Presidency is far more likely to pave the way for this than Trump is. And that is why we have to vote - not only so that we don’t get Trump, but so that we can put the nation on a path to having a chance of doing the right thing.
Anyway, again I’m not trying to chide your position or claim that you are serving Trump his presidency on a silver platter. That is dumb and a poor rhetoric to take with someone. There is also the whole fact that we have many different rounds of voting, it’s insinuated that it’s the general Presidency election but it may not be, so I wonder if people get defensive for local elections. To which of course I say -
State representatives 1) do have to be elected, 2) do have briefings on constituent requests, and 3) could be you! Jk (unless…?) no for real, 3) that there are other people like you who may not feel fully represented by the state reps, to which I say change is possible. We just… we actually have to do something about it, and usually that means fully informed voting.
Are you not confusing “some politics I don’t agree with are being represented” with “none of the politics I agree with are being represented”? Granted, I don’t know what your politics are, but you’re clearly not a trump fan. I’m having a difficult time imagining a political leaning that has zero overlap with Bidens politics.
I’m having a hard time with this whole thread. Yes, it’s a shitty choice, but that doesn’t make it any less the only choice. It’s not like a trump victory “nudges the country further towards a fascist state”. He, and his followers, have made it quite clear that the immediate goal is full-on fascism.
If wouldn’t be terribly surprised if this was a spoiler campaign, honestly, but even in the more likely event that it isn’t, the results are nearly indistinguishable. It does a great job of sewing sowing doubt and spreading fatalism/doomerism. Does anyone seriously think we’re comparing apples to apples here?
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Biden is not fantastic. Agreed.
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The glaring psychopathy of the right makes it easier for the Democrats to also shift right. Looks like it.
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Biden is bad, so the alternative can be ignored. Uhm, what?
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Withholding my vote for Biden will teach the Democrats a lesson, and it’s not like I’m voting for trump or anything. You’re going to get us all killed.
I think the implication above is that the person with the most votes wins; by not adding your vote to pile A, there are fewer votes for pile B to beat.
Again, it’s not a great set of options, but how can anyone who is even remotely sane consider furthering the risk of trump winning to prove a point? If he wins, will there even be any more elections? Who are you proving the point to?
It’s been 4 years since trump left office. 4 measly years. How such large swathes of the country seem to have collectively forgotten how utterly insane, deadly, and brazenly corrupt that whole shit-show was is completely beyond me.
None of the American presidents are great. Not one of them. Every single one of them has blood on their hands. None of this is new. At least people are waking up now, even if it’s too late. There’s a great shift towards unions. Attempts at making healthcare less horrible. An actual debate about student loans. About minimum wage. About housing. Will it all be fixed under the Democrats? Unlikely. Will it all be actively and aggressively fought by trump and the fascist right he represents? Guaranteed.
Want to make a difference? Fight it all with every fiber if your being. Join movements, unionize, support better candidates. Helping trump does not help anyone, and all but guarantees that the already rickety societal framework that lets you even have a dissenting opinion will be torn down in the blink of an eye.
Foil the fascist autocrat first. Then spend the next 4 years making your point clear to the democrats. Find better ways to try to steer the country away from its race to the right. There are many good suggestions on this thread as to how. None of them are “don’t vote for Biden”.
I live in a very red state and until recently didn’t have the option to just jump to another more progressive state. But I also recognize that the ability to just jump ship is a privilege that the majority do not have. Even now I am on the fence because this is still my home where I have grown roots. The issue is those who decided to abstain or vote 3rd party in 2016 allowed for the rise of Trump. From there SCOTUS became a right-wing powerhouse and Roe was overturned. If Hillary had won in 2016, SCOTUS would have been provided justices who would not have taken that action. As much as I disliked Hillary, I knew she was the safer choice when it came to my reproductive rights and the rights of other minorities.
I cannot for the life of me find a gynecologist that isn’t some crazy pro-lifer obsessed with bAbieZ and the overturning of Roe only has made this worse. I’ve called gynos in my conservative state asking if they’re trauma trained and every damn time they act like they’ve never heard of sexual assault. It’s all talk of how can we get you to have bAbieZ because how dare you want to be a child free woman in such a godly state! How many other women are in my position in similar red states and delaying vital checks for cancer when the only providers want to shame you? All the decent gynos that I would have seeked care from have no desire to practice in a state that is so restrictive on abortion so instead it caters to the extreme.
As much as Biden’s backing of Isreal bothers me, I will still vote for him because the situation above will only get worse for I and other women. There’s also the whole war against Trans and Gay individuals by those on the right, and voting for Biden is another dam preventing their way of life being persecuted federally. The right is itching to hurt or even kill those they do not agree with and abstaining to vote just ushers this possibility to be greater and allow Trump to return.
Hillary was never going to win. She was, to use the term that people like to levy against progressives, “un-electable”. Blaming the literal millions of voters who voted for Obama but not for her, instead of blaming her or the DNC for not recognizing that she was losing, is exactly why we’re back in this situation.
In 2020, Trump was so fresh in peoples’ minds that a literal dog would have beaten him. But instead of taking 4 years to prepare a candidate that could beat him when things were not on fire, the DNC instead actively pushed all other candidates to not run, ensuring that we’d find ourselves here, and (if my read is correct), ensuring that no matter who I vote for, Trump is going to win.
As much as I disliked Hillary, I knew she was the safer choice when it came to my reproductive rights and the rights of other minorities.
Compared to Trump? Of course she was. No one here (hopefully) voted for Trump. I voted for her in the General, too. But she, just like Biden, was massively unpopular, and literally had no path to victory.
The right is itching to hurt or even kill those they do not agree with
There are many other actions that are necessary to forestall this violence. This rhetoric is only escalating on the Right, and they’re not going to be held in check by legal strictures for long. They’ve already tried a coup once, and Dems are doing literally nothing to ensure it cannot happen again. People should be preparing accordingly.
This is not an easy choice, because it does eventually come down to a question of how you weigh out the outcomes you’re voting for. If Biden indicated, through his actions, that he was going to support the genocide of a group of Americans, not one person here would be advocating voting for him. But since he’s only doing precisely that for a group of people in another country, suddenly voting for the lesser of 2 evils is alright.
My coworker (and deskmate in our office prior to lockdown) is Palestinian. He has lost multiple family members to bombs since the “war” started, which as far as he knows his own taxes may have helped pay for. Potentially provided by the person you’re telling me to vote for. Should he be thankful to Biden, since Trump might have done worse? Biden, who is still today asking congress for additional weapons for Israel?
Biden’s backing of Israel does not “bother” me, it infuriates me to a level I cannot properly describe.
I am not going to be part of that (any more than I already am, having voted for him last time).
