The admins on lemmynsfw.com have decided to allow “non-IRL loli”, i.e. drawn porn involving children/teenagers. (Post: https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29633).
Irrelevant of the moral issues that this poses, such content is illegal in many countries (e.g the UK). Continuing to federate with lemmynsfw.com will put users at risk of significant legal repercussions.
Please would the admins consider defederating unless lemmynsfw change their policy.
UPDATE: The lemmynsfw admins posted an clarification here: https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29826. My original argument for defederating doesn’t stand any more.
If any illegal content would be posted there, let us know. If it’s 1 community, we can block the community. If it’s all over the place, we can defederate. But I see defederation as a last resort. If there are other ways to keep our server safe I prefer that.
I think it’s worth pointing out that legality depends on jurisdiction and while it’s obviously a requirement to obey the your (and other admins’) local laws, it’s not quite so clear-cut when it comes to other countries.
Eg. It’s illegal to criticize Hong Kong’s government under their National Security Law. But I think we’d (the community here, not just you and me) agree that lemmy.world has absolutely no obligation to follow that law.
Also worth pointing out in crimes of this manner intent also matters in many places.
If someone sends you that shit out of the blue, or you scroll by it while browsing the internet, there wasn’t a damn thing you could do. If you saved the image now we have a problem, ideally you take steps to ensure you won’t see that image or anything like it again but I don’t even think that would be legally required in alot of places…
Also, when you set Type to Subscribed in Settings the front page default feed only contains posts from communities you have actually subscribed to.
This does not prevent lemmy.world from accidently hosting illegal content, but it helps to protect your own feed from unwanted stuff.
2 weeks ago: Lemmy is so amazing, create an account anywhere and you can access everything! It’s like forums but better!
Now: defederate >:(
Ugh. I get the concern in scenarios like this, but in the last couple of days every instance has calls to defederate from this or that. Eventually it’s just gonna be small islands of “very compatible” instances.
Well, guess it’s back to making separate accounts for everything!
That’s a bit dramatic. Most of the big instances will stay federated with most of the others.
Some topics that are just too intolerable to the general population will get isolated. Pedo content, Nazis, etc. if you feel you need to make a second account to go participate in those things, well you do you I guess…
Well, Beehaw already defederated from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, a few fairly normal instances don’t federate with lemmy.ml, even more don’t federate with lemmigrad, calls to defed from lemmynsfw were there from its very first day, never mind burggit.
Like, okay I get it that it’s not a drop-in Reddit replacement and instance owners can do whatever they like - but I still wonder where it leads at the end.
Well lemmy.ml is run by pretty much the same people as lemmygrad. Before the Reddit drama .ml was filled with mostly the same kind of politics. They chose the .ml extension to signify Marxism-Leninism I believe. So it’s not that surprising that some have blocked them.
But anyway, where does it lead? We’re just in flux. Everyone is figuring everything out. Instances will stabilize. Norms will be established. Everything will be fine. Some pockets will get isolated, but I believe the vast majority will stay together. Once in a while there will be some drama, some splits and spats. It’ll be fine, people will shift. Balance will return.
In time, things settle. Those that defederate too much will soon become self-isolated and that’s totally fine. Most of the servers will remain federated and will be the body that everyone wants to connect with and others may be very happy to self-isolate and not caring about any other servers or their communities.
What I do find possible is that the owners of federated servers will start to form a governing “council” that share some agreed principles for content and the allied servers would all defederate from any server that violates their shared content rules. To join the main group, you have to agree to abide by the council rules or be defederated as well (for example a server asks to join the main group, then also feds with a piracy server on the group ban list, so it gets defederated by the group).
I feel like NSFW stuff will be fine here, but the questionable, non-consensual stuff will not even be visible by the main group. The federated servers will be the content core, the unfederated servers will be like the wild west, full of questionable and potentially dangerous stuff.
Just give it some time, this is sudden and unexpected growth. It’s healthy. I think people are starting to see just how corporate social media is, and how much they are both the content generators as well as the content consumers. So steps to take back the control of how we communicate is a win for us.
With the idea of self-hosted decentralized servers also comes a responsibility. With sites like reddit, the corporation behind it is responsible for everything, including moderating potentially illegal content. With lemmy, this is on the individual servers to handle.
I think it’s a bit silly to get all dramatic and say stuff like “Well, guess it’s back to making separate accounts for everything!” just because instances allowing potentially illegal cp are to be de-federated…
I’d say the kbin integration was a pretty big win? And there are tons of new servers coming up - I wouldn’t worry about losing a few. There are other nsfw communities as well.
De-federating from someone is totally fine, and that should be up to instance owners (ideally with some input from users)
Exactly, defederation is just a tool and it’s up to the owners to use it when appropriate and in line with their goals for the instance.
For example when brigading happened on Reddit some subreddits had to go private to defend themselves, with Lemmy the owners can defederate from the offending instance instead but still keep access open for everyone else. Another aspect is the legal side, as someone else also mentioned the content OP talks about is illegal in many countries and due to the way the Fediverse works owners of the federated instances will end up linking and hosting that illegal content on their own servers as well, unless they defederate.
As a federation shouldn’t we start with Diplomacy? This is a prime example. We didn’t wait long enough, and it was clarified rather quickly.
Defederation should require more deliberation and unless an immediate emergency shouldn’t there be other actions under consideration first.
I think there should at least be some type of poll or mod to mod discussion on having them try to combat it on their end.
I’m not sure if that’s sustainable but I thinm Lemmynsfw is the best porn content on here currently, and it seems that people like porn.
I agree there should be diplomacy first.
But I guess now, a CP free nsfw instance will start to gain traction and well be alright long term as things sort themselves out.
I wish there was a way to exclude the whole instance from my personal feed without requiring admins to defederate it. Right now I have to play whackamole with new communities popping up. And it’s not just the NSFW stuff.
I’m taking the opposite approach, that is, instead of blocking what I don’t want to see, I join what I do want to see.
Blocking is not effective if you want a “curated” feed IMO, new communities are being created all the time, especially now that many are migrating over from reddit, you might never “end” blocking stuff.
OP post is a different situation though, that kind of content is illegal in many countries (especially EU), just being federated with them could pose a legal risk, it’s not just stuff some people don’t want to see.
I’ve been browsing through new as a way of finding communities to join. The NSFW stuff in that feed is unideal but easy enough to ignore, whereas content that could send me to jail is a whole different ballgame.
You should make a correction because your original post isn’t true
You can make this even nicer, just originally join instance that doesn’t federate with nsfw, and then make another account to lemmynsfw instance, and add both of them to client. You can with one click jump between accounts at least in jerboa.
This makes a nice experience to control what you see and when
I have always hated “NFSW” being such a large blanket. NFSW does not exclusively mean “porn”.
Open source, so I’m sure someone can. Platform is very young - I suspect that as it gains popularity, more people will contribute to source, and we’ll eventually see more options for customization. Both at the user level and the instance level giving people more reasons to choose other instances over just population of it.
They did post an update about it
Looks like its less about blatant loli/shota content and more about “characters who are petite/young-looking but not obviously underage”
How and if that changes anyones feelings about it is up to them.
I don’t care about drawings, there are no victims, but if it’s illegal by law it poses a problem.
Pretty sure we are hosted on Hetzner in Germany, which makes this very problematic, especially if the admins of lemmynsfw aren’t able to properly identify illegal content right away and it spreads through the whole network.
“characters who are petite/young-looking but not obviously underage”
yeah of course they’re not gonna come out and say “yeah we want to host and share drawn CSAM” and they’re going to be weasely and sneaky about it, do you really plan to take pedophiles and pedophile enablers at the honor of their word here
