I find it interesting that this is being defended so vociferously, when so many people still needlessly died.
Well the first claims out by Hamas was 500+ dead and an Israeli airstrike.
Now we are learning it’s more like 20-50 dead, landed in the parking lot next to the hospital and was due to a failed Hamas/related groups rocket.
Yeah either way people died but the entire situation has greatly raised tension in the middle east. It could have been responsible for opening up another front of the war with Hezbollah.
Huh?
The quantity of innocent lives lost makes the correct identification of the culprit maximally important
No it doesn’t. The IDF will lie. Hamas will lie. Did it matter who blew up the Nordstream pipeline? At best, we’ll find out years from now, and, by then the world will have moved on, and it won’t matter.
Civilians died. It is critical to know how.
People aren’t a piece of infrastructure
It absolutely matters, yeah people died but guess what, shit don’t end there.
If this is a verifiable attack from Israel it is a clear indicator a war crime and can be used to reduce support to Israel in this effort. Ya know what that could do? Reduce the number of people who will die
Just because someone died doesn’t mean it’s off limits to those that didn’t. What kind of brain dead take is that
No it doesn’t. Israel has committed war crimes leading up to this. Did the world stop that? How many lives did knowing that Israel committed war crimes save? Hamas committed war crimes. Did knowing that save lives? Did I mention that Israel is still committing war crimes? They bombed a school. They bomb the people fleeing. They shot people (including children) during a peaceful protest in 2018. Why didn’t the world care then? It’s that kind of brain dead take.
Wtf is “open sourced intelligence”? Is it another name for “armchair internet sleuths”?
It’s genuine intel but needs to be verified thoroughly. I will believe it once it hits reputable news sources.
Which are? For example in Germany the Tagesschau is a quite reputable source and they are also using these OSINT sources to back the story up.
There is literally a definition in the article…
Open-Source Intelligence (OSINT) is defined as intelligence produced by collecting, evaluating and analysing publicly available information.
So like when Reddit found the Boston Bomber, gotcha.
I’ll take this with a grain of salt.
Not really, because even some news stations now access this public available data and checked it with their sources. Good example would be Bucha where those sources were used to verify the crimes that happend there. But yeah of course you always need a trustful source which uses this data.
Good starting point is to go to official news pages and avoid social media like twitter, Reddit or even lemmy until those news is proven.
Big fucking difference but sure if it’s not an individual hired directly by some govt it must be akin to a redditor!
Give me a fuckin break
Example of the power of OSINT: https://www.isdglobal.org/digital_dispatches/jan-6-series-how-osint-powered-the-largest-criminal-investigation-in-us-history/
Law enforcement also used geofence data (obtained via search warrant) and flight records to place her at the Capitol riot. Indeed, charging documents show that many of the January 6 defendants were identified by law enforcement using these triangulation methods — largely based on OSINT — to piece together proof that they were involved. The challenge of the reliability of OSINT data was able to be overcome through the large amount of digital evidence available.
Have you actually ready any of it yourself? Or are you just passing armchair judgement based solely on headlines?
Just because you don’t understand doesn’t mean it’s all bullshit.
While I can’t take Hamas’ word at face value, I also can’t forget that many people who are not Israeli have a vested interest in spreading misinformation. Why did Israel change it’s story so many times immediately following? Can IDF not launch missiles from inside Gaza? The article mentions this ordinance has been used by Hamas before, when? How is Hamas able to smuggle missiles into Gaza, which has been described as a locked down prison with hundreds of checkpoints?
This is an incredible claim and I expect incredible proof.
How is Hamas able to smuggle missiles into Gaza, which has been described as a locked down prison with hundreds of checkpoints?
there are huge tunnel systems under gaza…its quite crazy.
First they blamed Hamas. Then they posted a video from 2022. Then they posted a video with a wrong timestamp (even though it was live). There were probably more but these are what came to mind.
These are a few: https://twitter.com/MarkKersten/status/1714367614162702612, but they are saved all over if you don’t trust this random dude.
My man, this current conflict started with Hamas launching ~2,500 missiles at Israel. Israel famously has the Iron Dome system to shoot down the missiles that have been coming from Gaza, the West Bank, and Lebanon for years. It is not at all an incredible claim that Hamas and other anti-Israel groups in Palestine have missiles; it’s well-proven fact. Here’s an info-graphic of the different types of missiles Hamas was known to have as of 2021.
Thanks friend, you’re a good fella. I understand the Iron Dome is a rocket defense system, there’s just a difference between missiles and rockets.
Not sure why you added “there’s just a difference between missiles and rockets”. There is a difference, but is not particularly relevant here. Many people mix up these terms anyway: the post you replied to mentions missiles but Hamas, as per linked graphic, probably only has rockets. It may matter to the iron dome system, as that relies on a predictable path of a rocket to decide what to target.
Why did Israel change it’s story so many times immediately following?
Because their psyop instinct jumped the gun without double-checking whether they actually hit any target even in the rough vicinity. Imagine a bunch of neck-bearded shitposters in uniform salivating over their keyboards, then brass storming in saying “stop that it wasn’t us, this time”.
Crosspost from a similar thread:
So this here is the current view on the area where supposedly about 500 people died. Also there are allegedly more than 300 wounded.
Questions I personally have:
- where is the rubble and where is the bomb crater?
- why does the building seem undamaged?
- how do you fit 800 people in this parking lot?
Well Israel has dropped more bombs this week alone than the entire Afghan war, so it isn’t obscene to think the few hospitals left standing are overcrowded by the thousands. If OSINT is to be believed, it hit the parking lot and wiped out that many people, its a pretty fucking big parking lot. And if it was Hamas, they do not have as powerful of payloads as Israel, so I would assume they were just too weak to collapse the building.
Also it’s unclear how many people died.
Turns out taking the hamas series of events at face value won’t link up with reality down the line
And too many people where just too happy to jump to conclusions if that conclusion is allowing them to shit on Israel further.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen misinformation being gobbled up so willingly by so many before - the internet was just ready to condemn Israel for whatever they could get their hands on.
And as if one needed proof that Anti-Zionism is just a disguise for Anti-Semitism directly after that claim of Israel being responsible in Berlin people already started spraying Stards of David on houses that jews where living and threw a molotov at a synagogue.
how do you fit 800 people in this parking lot?
have you heard of multi level buildings?
I wonder why 800 people would huddle in one building that’s supposed to be off limits to bombs right now. Really boggles the mind yeah? /s
So you see a multi level building there? You maybe should cut down on the mushrooms.
Here’s a source explaining what happened since I guess no one taught you keyboard ninjas how to do actual research.
Canon Richard Sewell, the dean of St George’s College in Jerusalem, told the BBC that about 1,000 displaced people were sheltering in the courtyard when it was hit, and about 600 patients and staff were inside the building.
