This is what I love about the fediverse. On the Lemmy side we’ve seen it in action with lemmygrad. Private platforms need moderators to do that, which let’s be real, doesn’t generate enough profit to be worth their time…
Hmm, Twitter used to at least try before. Advertisers don’t like Eat Fresh! Running below a nazi tweet. There are at least some market forces keeping them at bay, which is why their social platforms keep failing.
Nothing Beats communities that are willing to oust bad elements, though
Advertisers didn’t like their ads running next to a nazi tweet until they saw how much money they could make off nazis after one of them was made potus.
Nope, they still don’t. Except pillow guy. Hence why the nazi networks keep falling and why x is failing.
platforms driven by user created content like the nazis, and other extreme right ideologues, because the audience for them consumes that content like religious zealots going to services, getting in their daily requirements of indoctrination. This inflates user engagement. However, the businesses advertising their services, and products, on those platforms do not like their company being associated with these people.
It’s nice when the primary goal of the owners and mods and aligns with the users.
Chasing profit is the worst mechanism in so many cases. One of those cases is when competition is by nature very limited. Social media kind of fails unless you have very few places to go. And you’re locked in if your friends are all on the same offering.
Lemmy world just removed their non-discrimination clause and one of the admins is (poorly) justifying it in a thread about it. I wouldn’t cheer quite yet.
This is only a problem because lemmy.world has become one of the centralized hubs for Lemmy, which means that jettisoning them has a larger impact. The failing of lemmy.world is a reminder that we should be intentionally spreading out to smaller instances, that way a bad admin/instance can be cut off without losing much value. Additionally, by lemmy.world/lemmy.ml/etc having such a grip on the core of Lemmy, they are emboldened to make bad changes without fearing consequences.
Totally. I would love to stand up an instance but it’s a little above my tech knowledge and, frankly, I don’t want to have to think about the legal aspects of what happens on it.
If I ever somehow did it, I would probably not allow photos/videos. Disable downvotes. Things like that.
The more users spread out into smaller, more easily censored instances, the more the remaining fragmented bits of the Lemmy ecosystem still talking to each other will turn into echo chambers full of groupthink. This low threshold for defederation is the Fediverse’s greatest weakness. Sure, it’s possible to work around it—but how many separate Lemmy accounts are users expected to create? Even if you have accounts on every instance of note you’d need to manually cross-post messages to each balkanized server and their comment sections wouldn’t be shared—exactly the sort of thing federation was meant to avoid.
Email, another federated system, has this same weakness. It’s why it’s increasingly difficult to run your own (outgoing) email server which other systems will accept messages from without going through a well-known third party like Google. Especially when trying to push content to a large audience (e.g. mailing lists), which happens to be Lemmy’s core function.
Agreed. In order to keep a upvote/downvote based platform from becoming toxic, a lot of good moderation is required. Lemmy.world is definitely not doing that.
Bluesky has federation running in a sandbox network and is built to support 3rd party moderation tools both server side, client side, and in the custom feeds. Currently all users are on the main server which isn’t yet federating, though.
BTW one neat thing about those 3rd party mod tools is that you won’t need to wait for the server owner to act
PREPARE FOR DEFEDERATION
Depends on the instance. Some have the BlueSky response. Some have the Xitter response.
Don’t believe me, ask a black Mastodon user.
Yes, but those instances are normally the ones that get blocked by half of the web.
No I mean instances like mastodon.world who do ok moderating their own users, but are very poor at moderating the instances that federate with them. So any minority users who joins mastodon.world can still be (and is, I’ve seen it) subject to the worst bigotry on the fediverse.
I’m just so tired of watching green mods make the same mistakes. “It’s not my job to weigh in on debates or tell people what to think.” No, but it’s your job to reduce disruption in a community. If someone comes in going “being gay is a choice if you ask me,” they have about 30 seconds to clarify their position or they’re gone from my discord server and generally that won’t do it. We have a lot of LGBT folks who have NO desire to deal with those people in a the little corner of friends we’ve created. That person is not entitled to their time and attention. It is our job to look out for the best interests of all our users, yet we categorically see mods get bogged down by a handful of incredibly disruptive attention seekers/combative personalities that make it shitty for everyone else. It’s so predictable at this point.
We banned someone a few months ago from our discord who had some of the best insights about gaming I’ve ever seen. The dude was remarkable. But my god he was such a jerk! He kept being such an ass to people who disagreed with him. “That’s just a brain dead take.” “People who like that have no taste so frankly I don’t care what you or they think.” Just constant antagonism that halted all conversation and made people feel like crap. So we booted him! We asked him to stop, he didn’t, and his disruptions just became unwelcome. We didn’t play rules lawyer with him or debate things. We said stop, he didn’t, that was the end of it, and while I miss his insights the community is noticeably better without him.
Most mods aren’t clueless. They know bigotry is occurring in their communities. Yet they too often just won’t be proactive about it because the behavior doesn’t overtly violate the rules. Don’t let bad actors weaponize your own rules against you!
That’s one of the current weaknesses of the fediverse right now. Devs are working on more comprehensive moderation tools, but it’s all under development.
I’ve recently been added to the mastodon.world mod team. The amount of spam that gets posted makes it much harder than Lemmy to weed out the bigots. But it’s improving. And like on Lemmy.World we request Mastodon.World users to keep reporting…
I’m surprised I haven’t seen blue sky at least hire one Trust & Safety professional to coordinate baseline standards for content.
They do have a mod team, but they haven’t said much publicly around the hiring of dedicated T&S staff other than that they have positions open
Is there a way to see which instances a Mastodon instance has defederated with? For lemmy instances, for example, you can go to /instances to see a list of other connected and blocked instances.
you can go to /instances to see a list of other connected and blocked instances.
I just did, and noticed a bunch of supposedly-federated mastodon instances, but in reality I’ve never seen them in my ‘all’ stream.
Are they not supposed to show up there?
My understanding is that the ‘all’ feed only shows posts that come from accounts followed by people on your instance. You can follow anyone from any federated instance; and when you do, their posts will appear in your personal feed, and also in the ‘all’ feed for everyone on your instance. People are aren’t followed by anyone on your instance won’t show up in the ‘all’ section.
I’ve believe I’ve seen something like that stated before, but we’re talking *zero* mastodon content showing up in ALL. Which happens to be the same instance as yours, btw, with Lemm.ee being the third largest instance in the Lemmysphere. You’d expect at least a little mastodon content showing up, but there’s just nothing.
So far the two resources just don’t seem to be mixing, so perhaps what the other person was saying is correct. Right now in order to search mastodon, I’m using this tool.
That list shows all instances that your instance is kinda sorta maybe aware of.
For example, if I searched the profile link for someone or some group from a Masto instance and didn’t do anything with it, that instance would still get on that list because it asked the Lemmy instance about info on that profile/community.
Oof, pardon this tragically late reply.
So… TBH I don’t quite understand what you’re saying.
From my POV, I’m envisioning a way where Mastodon content could populate the ALL feed of Fediverse users, for example us lemmings. Do you reckon that’s possible?
Note: I already know how to search mastodon content btw, via tools like this
On desktop there should be a small “about” link in the bottom left, from which there is a “moderated servers” dropdown menu where you can see defederated servers. I don’t see anywhere to view the servers you ARE federated with, but if it’s listed at Mastodon’s official website (whoops, I actually meant this)it’s probably in.
I don’t see anything on the official Masto app, but that app is just missing a ton of functionality in general.
the servers you ARE federated with
iirc, that’s all down to what accounts your server’s users follow. If any users on server A follow users on server B, and neither A nor B block the other, then A is federated with B.
But how would a user on A find anyone on B before federation? I know Lemmy can initiate federation through the search function just in case you’re the first to look for something on another instance, but I don’t see how that would work on Masto.
FYI the official website is https://joinmastodon.org/servers, not whatever you linked to
Only one I found so far was https://fba.ryona.agency/
The caveat is that it was made by kiwifarms
I’ve used it to quickly check defederated instances but, yeah, kiwifarms is a problem.
Also, look at the GitGud repo
They literally licensed it under an AGPLV3+[n-word] license
There’s defed.xyz as an alternative, but it only tracks defederations between lemmy instances for now.
@mint@ryona.agency have you read this thread on the remote instance? pure cancer induced by soy milk
It is pretty fucking cool tbh