Both Ukraine and Palestine are fighting against an invading force. We can unanimously agree that Palestinians have have been illegally occupied in an open air prison/concentration camp for 75 years. And we seem to agree that Palestine cannot be a perfect victim and it is reasonable that they seek support in Hamas instead of their Israeli oppressors.
Now why can’t the same logic be applied to Ukraine? There is absolutely a nazi problem in Ukraine. A nazi problem that needs to be wiped out. But Russia isnt trying to denazify Ukraine, they’re trying to maintain borders and resist NATO. But while doing so they are indiscriminately killing civilians and are the aggressors.
Personally, I believe in what Norman Finkelstein has to say about Hezbollah and the red army. Both are not perfect, but I don’t care about their politics. I care that they are a resisting force and believe a country should have the right to self determination.
So how are these situations diametrically opposed that you seem to be hostile towards Ukraine but supportive of Palestine?
I don’t mean to come off as shaming or judgemental. I genuinely would like to hear your perspective.
Edit: I appreciate all of the thoughtful and patient responses. Even though I might not respond to everything here I am reading all of it. I was operating under a lack of information, which I’ve never seen any Western media source report on. Ever since leaving reddit, hexbear has been a great source of alternative perspectives and context. It’s opened my eyes to a lot of how I’ve been misled by papers that I’ve trusted.
I’d ask the same question back to you, but replace Ukraine with the LPR and DPR. Liberals had absolutely nothing to say of the thousands of civilians in the Donbass murdered by the NATO installed Ukraine regime since 2014. I don’t know what they expected to happen, just like I don’t know what Israel expected to happen by continuing their occupation and genocide of Palestine
Finkelstein himself has commented on this case and has in fact taken the position you question. He actually makes the most radical version of this case that I’ve seen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu9LJ8OAUBE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98aeggkK34I
I would argue people in general have no conception of what US foreign policy actually is or how the present iteration connects historically, once you begin to sketch that picture the pieces begin to fall into place.
Now why can’t the same logic be applied to Ukraine?
Ukraine doesn’t even support Palestinian resistance. Why should I care about a movement and government that stands with and are inspired by the genocidal Israeli forces? Ukraine could easily win some diplomatic points and confuse leftists by standing in solidarity with Palestine and condemning Israel and comparing them to evil ruskies, but they don’t. Why? Well:
It’s like saying “why do you support Vietnamese resistance but not Khmer Rogue resistance?”
why does the us state department support ukrainian resistance but not palestinian resistance? it’s basically the same answer but inverted
I’m not going to read through all my comrades’ responses since I pretty much know what they’re gonna say, I just hope no one is attacking you because this is a legitimate question to ask and seems in good faith.
I think it’s more accurate, and might be easier to understand our position, if you think of the Russia-Ukraine war as more of a Russia-US proxy war which, unfortunately, a lot of Ukrainians are now stuck in the middle of. Most folks on hexbear are not pro-Russia, but because in this conflict (and at this point of history) Russia represents multipolarity as opposed to US, western hegemony, many of us have taken up pro-Russia positions to varying degrees.
Another point is that the war could really be said to have begun in 2014, or at least that’s when the lead up to this conflict began. And so from 2014 until now Ukraine has just been a pawn, with western governments using it to erode Russian influence. I think many of us see the us as ultimately hoping to make Russia a us vassal state along with the rest of Europe. So Ukraine has really just become this geopolitical chess piece in a great power war. Of course Russia using the region as a geopolitical pawn to further their interests is also not great, but because Russia in this instance is doing so as part of the drive for greater multipolarity and to chip away at US domination, and really when you get down to it as a defensive measure against US expansion, we tend to take that side.
Although I think saying we take Russia’s side is a bit disingenuous since, when you get through all the Ukrainian Nazi jokes, there is the acknowledgement that a lot of people are now caught in the middle of this great power conflict. However we don’t squarely put the blame on Russia for that, and Russia’s goals - multipolarity, the chipping away of US hegemony - broadly line up with ours, and also countries which we do support, eg. China, Cuba, Venezuela, have taken up this position.
