I guess that means it’s dead, as there’s no way a corporation would pay millions to acquire a competitor just to continue developing a free alternative to their own product
Fuck me. I switched to owncloud yesterday because I can’t stand nextcloud anymore.
Owncloud feels lighter, faster, and just works.
Whhhhhhyyyyyy ?
I wouldn’t assume that they’ll kill it. It’s entirely possible that they’ll keep moving forward as-is. Just wait and see.
It’s entirely possible that they’ll shut it down. I’m just saying…chill the fuck out, wait and see what happens before we all start crying.
How has ownCloud development compared to NextCloud since the split?
Since a couple years ago they abandoned the php version (=nextcloud) and they are in the process of a complete rewrite in go, which that means is faster and uses less resources but all existing plugins need to be rewritten too, and given the small user base nobody is going to do that.
Hold on… owncloud is in go? I have much higher hopes for that. PHP is terrible, even to manage.
they call it “owncloud infinite scale” but for some reason they don’t clearly specify that it’s designed for performance, and it has nothing to do with the previous version. They even start the introduction page with this:
Welcome to oCIS, the modern file-sync and share platform, which is based on our knowledge and experience with the PHP based ownCloud server.
If you read that a platform is based on their knowledge and experience with PHP, would you guess that they’re talking about a complete rewrite in go?
Badly. Nextcloud is a very active project with many plugins and integrations. You can even integrate a mail system and AI image tagging, chat and video calls.
Owncloud focussed more on the enterprise sector and less on fancy features. Definitely the more stable product (but not only in the positive sense).
I tried NC recently (like 2 weeks ago) and fuck me it’s an awful piece of shit, full-stop. It broke completely 3x during initial setup, needing a container wipe and beginning from scratch each time, then I was following the official docs and the ‘status / security’ page of the admin area where it told me to do something that had no gui (so they are 100% aware anyone new has to do this but cba to throw it a fucking web page) and if you edit the config file on the machine directly, even if you stop the container, it breaks permissions (???) so you have to download it from your server, edit, and re-upload it (somehow doesn’t break permissions???). This took an hour to figure out, the doc was useless.
Then you get to the plug-in page and fuck me could this be any worse. Pick one fucking category each, guys, I don’t need to see 40% of the same available plug-ins on almost every fucking category, jesus fucking christ. Then you dive into these things and you realize how surface-level they are - a task/to-do list should have a fucking import/export function, as well as REPEATING OPTIONS fuck me sideways are you seriously taking the piss. You’ll be setting up other plug-ins and they don’t actually function at all even though they have been verified to work with your version (medical plug in, for example) and it just keeps crumbling around you the further you go. Shit, even the weather widget on the ‘home page’ will show C instead of F when you select a country during account setup that uses F, with NO OBVIOUS WAY TO CHANGE THAT. The fix? Go through your region options, pick a different country, then back to your actual. Does NOBODY EVEN TEST THIS SHIT? How are they on version SIX of their ‘hub’?! This screams alpha, not multiple-stable-releases!
Gahhhhh, fuck!
/rant
Nice rant ;)
I did never have any problems with installing it, but once or twice with upgrading. And I agree with you that the setup is complex with all the possible options and getting it to run well takes some time.
When it comes to the apps, Nextcloud is a very open system. Its easy to publish an app, and the quality of the apps varies. Some apps are abandoned and don’t work in recent versions. Personally, I would recommend to keep the number of apps low for stability and security reasons.
I’ve been self-hosting since before docker and containers were a thing, and even though Nextcloud kinda pushes their container images these days, I still refuse to use them, and use the community archive releases or web installer when reconfiguring my system or setting up a new system to migrate to. Maybe it’s just Nextcloud and the other software I use, or maybe it’s just that I’m not really trying to build scalable server infrastructure with a lot of users, but I generally find that docker causes more problems than it solves, and it does my head in when I see projects that recommend containers as the primary suggested install method.
Totally agree with your assessment of the plugins/apps systems. Feels like you need to stick to official “apps” and hope they don’t get abandoned to have anything close to a good experience because even minor updates can break all the 3rd party apps because of a compatibility check, where you end up waiting for the app developer to release an “update” that only changes the version compatibility number.
My experience wasn’t as bad, but after the third time the database got corrupted during an upgrade I stopped using it.
Part of the problem is you don’t understand how containers work. If you need to do a ‘container wipe’ and starting from scratch, you’re doing it wrong.
I’ve been running nextcloud in k8s for years and running a few occ upgrade commands after an upgrade is annoying but not the end of the world.
Has anything actually happened in ownClouds development?
The last I saw of them was FOSDEM a few years back, where NextCloud were handing out whitepapers and showing off their new Hub, chat, VoIP stack, group sharing system, and more. And ownCloud were sat somewhat opposite with two people and a screen showing a screenshot of a default ownCloud install, along with a big sign hanging from the ceiling saying “Join the winning team.”
What happened to owncloud dev? I wish it would be the same at nextcloud! They fully get rid of PHP. Its called OCIS and is a single binary or docker container.
OCIS is in early stage and lacks some features, but it is really easy to install and works flawlessly on low resources.
It’s great to hear that they’re not just giving up. And it’s also definitely good to hear that they’re not sticking with PHP either, that language is a true bane to modern hosting - and especially Kubernetes.
I’ll remain cautiously optimistic that they’ll be able to stay relevant, and not go hard in again on cutting away core functionality in the name of enterprise offerings - what caused the NextCloud split in the first place.
I’ll just stick with Nextcloud
Ooooor it will become a free vs corporate solution like RedHat and the likes do.
Portainer also does it for example. I think LDAP-Auth is paywalled but it makes sense that features like that are.
I think LDAP-Auth is paywalled but it makes sense that features like that are
Yes! As soon as your homelab grows above a couple of services and especially if it’s used by two or more people SSO becomes an absolute necessity! The tolerance of non-technical users for handling a bunch of passwords and having to enter them everywhere is understandably low.
The Home Assistant devs apparently also deal SSO as “a corporate feature that big-corp interests want to force onto us” whereas it’s the exact opposite in many cases: If we want self hosted services to be a realistic alternative to the “big corpo offerings” then we have to consider convenience and security an important feature and SSO is one of the few things that improves both at the same time.
Idk why you’d need LDAP login as the admin for a homelab.
For other things like owncloud it makes sense but not there but eh…Personal preference I guess.
It might be, but in the history of that corp, they never had a free/community/oss project. It looks like the typical Embrace Extend Extinguish strategy, where you acquire competitors just to get their customer base instead of the real product. OC 10 it’s already dead (no php 8 support) and ocis has almost no plugins.
