America is genocidal, sure, but so is every single other society in the history of civilization. America is exceptional because of the technology and the art it contributed to genocide, which is the goal of every civiliztion, remember. Pointing out the difference in scale of US atrocities just prevents us working together for greater justice.
https://lemmy.ml/comment/6343679 https://hexbear.net/comment/4329347
I don’t think destroying all native Americans and the entirety of the middle east and parts of southeast asia along with south america was worth it for capeshit movies tbh
Genocide trivialization is a common refrain of fascist discourse, the point of course is to normalize mass slaughter and paint it as an unavoidable feature of human society, while erasing the sociopolitical uniqueness of every genocide…“it happens all the time its not a big deal, and if it happens again big whoop survival of the fittest”
The a-historical insistence that EVERY “civilization” has committed genocide is another tactic of fascist rhetoric. That attempts to obscure the fact that it’s actaully STATES with a specific class character and political project that committ genocide, while merging the idea of states and civilization as being coterminous with each other and that they can’t be distinguished… “we’re all guilty thru out time and space so it would be hypocritical and traitorious to oppose genocide committed by one’s own civilization”
That form of rhetoric also tries to simultaneously collapse the concept of continuity… “it happened so long ago get over it” while also incoherently extending historical continuity past its breaking point… “oh so you condemn the genocide of native Americans, well what about the genocide carried out by the Mongols hmmm”
Basically fascists are ghouls and historically illiterate freaks
This. Fucking this is why I called out the comment to begin with. I don’t have the theoretical background to truly explain why this horrible sentiment is so insidious. Why it’s so disgusting and weasely. Thank you comrade, for putting to words all those things I found so despicable about the original comment but couldn’t articulate myself.
Wouldn’t it be fair to actually get the quote right.
I’ve read the work of your theorists here and not one has mentioned a civilization that never made the kinds of disgusting, vile, and despicable mistakes that the US made/makes.
If they have, sorry I missed that, so please enlighten me.
Also — get the quote right?
What the fuck are you talking about? The vast majority of modern states don’t even have the military capabilities of ‘making the mistakes’ the U.S. makes (here’s a thing, they aren’t mistakes), let alone at the scale they make them. Are you gonna claim like Uzbekistan is invading countries half-way across the globe or killed off 97% of it’s native population?
This is besides the fact that most of the time, genocide wasn’t economically on the table for most ancient empires, outside of re-settlement, and even then, that was pretty damn rare and thus was mentioned often when it did happen (Babylon, Persia etc.). Often rulers would brag of commiting genocide, but the historical (archeological) and genealogical record doesn’t agree with their proclamations. Actual genocide is usually fueled by a want for economic lesbarum or previous colonial economic divides and relationships.
For example, when ancient Pharaohs went south to ‘Subjugate Upper Egypt’ they surely fought battles (though again what battles they fought and how large they were are probably exaggerated) but Egyptian control of the area was always limited to a series of small forts that would mostly protect the gold mines and trade routes. It was not about population control. Imperialism? Sure. War Crimes? Sure. Settler-colonial genocide? No.
You said you’re American and are aware that this country was built on genocide. Then you said every major civilization has committed genocide (equivocating, but that’s beside the point of my question). What genocides have India and China committed?
Follow-on question, what genocides were Indian and Chinese civilizations built on? What about Persian civilization?
Wouldn’t it be fair to actually get the quote right.
What tf are you talking about? The only thing I quoted you on I did so with a screenshot. What did I quote wrong according to you? Do you think I went and edited the image file or something? lol If you’re talking about the person I replied to, who did make use of quotation marks in their comment, it was clear to everyone that they were not directly quoting you. They were demonstrating a sentiment, one that most here can recognize as common among fascists, a sentiment that you also leaned heavily on, even if you didn’t outright say it. You’re just picking some little thing to be mad about like “you mis-quoted me!!” because the content of CyborgMarx’s comment was spot on and you just aren’t capable of countering it.
I’ve read the work of your theorists here
You’ve read the “theorists” “here”? Do you think I’m talking about other commenters when I refer to theory? lol. No, I doubt you’ve read any theory. Marx and Engels? Lenin? Or maybe more directly relevant to this, Gramsci? Debord? Fanon?
not one has mentioned a civilization that never made the kinds of disgusting, vile, and despicable mistakes that the US made/makes.
I’ll defer to the other people who commented and answered this, making clear to everyone that you don’t know wtf you’re even talking about.
If they have, sorry I missed that, so please enlighten me.
Well, they did, so I hope you consider yourself enlightened now.
Also — get the quote right?
What, you want I should get a higher resolution screenshot next time? lol
Reminds me of that one lib on here who said slavery wasn’t all bad because now there’s rap music.
There are a lot of Americans who really struggle with the idea that America might not be the greatest nation ever to exist. They have to create ever more elaborate excuses why any negative thing is actually fine and does not tarnish americas perfect name.
drinking with co-workers once the topic of US vs China competition for hegemony comes up- the “smartest” and most well traveled person in the room argued with me that he’d prefer the US be on top of the world because they prefer the cultural products (marvel movies) of the US.
I asked, " is it really worth all that bloodshed for another remake of a movie you’ve already seen?!" and the guy actually hesitated with that one so idk
edit: I should mention we don’t even live with the great satan itself, but adjacent to it
People severely underestimate US soft power and think most of the world wants to live there to avoid imperialism. The sad truth is that most want to live there because of the power of Hollywood.
Soft power has the ability to completely shift public opinion in favor of your country no matter what you do after a few generations. Just look at Vietnam with the US or Taiwan with Japan.
My god that’s depressing, but I think you’re 100% correct. I think about this every time I watch another piece of media where yet another rich, beautiful, tv/movie star (even when they’re coded as being plain and poor) is completely consumed with solving their SUPER important in-universe problem, a problem which if thought about for more than 3 seconds is actually the most trivial, mundane, and ultimately inconsequential “problem,” one that is easily solved when you consider the star’s exceptionally privileged material conditions at their disposal, yet is still totally a universally relatable problem of course.
People watch that over and over and think “so that’s what American’s problems are like! Those lucky bastards! The culture I live in should be more like theirs, and then my problems would be more like theirs too.” even if it’s all subconscious. I mean, I know it happens to me way more than I like to admit even though I try to be aware of it and fight it off in my own mind. The soft power of hegemony as propagated through entertainment mediums is deep as fuck, insidious, tenacious, and overwhelmingly effective. One of the main reasons it works so well is that people like to think they’re immune to propaganda and are just having fun consuming some treats. (trying to channel @UlyssesT with that last sentence, he knew what I’m talking about.)
