Despite a long track record of anti-LGBTQ+ comments and advocacy, he has insisted he can’t be a hateful person because he’s a Christian.
I think he’s got it backwards. He can’t be a Christian because he’s a hateful person.
Right, this “not a real Christian” bullshit that Christians use to brush away the hateful people and teachings within your religion.
Own up to these people, they’re your fellow Christians no matter how much you claim they aren’t. Own them and fix them, instead of sweeping them under the rug and claiming they aren’t real
If they have to tell you they are Christian, they are not. If they have to tell you they are honest, they are not. If the have to tell you that they don’t watch porn, they do.
There’s no Christian stamp of approval. Your are the religion you say you are
Ok but also if you think that being a good person is correlated with being a Christian that’s also a problem. I’m a heretical apostate to Christianity but I act more in line with the teachings of Jesus than many Christians. Does that make me more Christian than them despite me having different gods? Or is it just that they’re bad at following the rules of their religion? I think it’s the latter. I think most if not all religious traditions place some weight on and expectations around being halfway decent, and Mike Johnson is a shitty person. He’d be shitty in any religion.
I see a lot of Christians say that they should “show you’re a Christian instead of saying it”, but like how about just be a good person and I won’t infer your religion off of it
If they’re not following the teachings of the founder of the religion, they’re not part of the religion. It’s not the No True Scotsman fallacy, because being a part of the religion requires them to do something (repent and love others) which they refuse to do.
Incidentally, I’d love to “fix them,” but they don’t think that I’m a Christian because I don’t worship Trump.
That’s very nice, but we’ve still got to contend with the reality that an entire political party in the US is using Christianity as an excuse to do horrifically evil shit, and a sizeable contingent of everyday people who also claim the label are in support of that. As an outside observer and not a Christian myself, it seems like a semantic distinction that ultimately misses the forest for the trees.
being a part of the religion requires them to do something (repent and love others)
By your definition, but there are plenty of people who seem to have other definitions, enough that he is publicly labeled as a Christian. It would seem the strict biblical definition of who is a Christian does not apply, like many other biblical rules, such as not wearing clothing of mixed fabrics.
You’re not going to convince non Christians he’s not one you with denial alone. You can either own him and better him, or suffer the changing public perception of your religion.
I have mixed feelings about that instinct. Calling out and distancing from the religious hypocrites is a Jesus thing to do. But also when non Christians fear Christians they need to understand why we feel that way and many Christians don’t seem to understand that I’m even scared of Christianity at it’s best.
So in short, do they just disavow or do they adamantly oppose as well? If they do the latter I’m happy they do the former, but I’ve seen far too many think the former is enough before they start shit talking atheists
Right, this “not a real Christian” bullshit that Christians use to brush away the hateful people and teachings within your religion.
You literally are acting against the teachings of Christ if you act like Johnson, which is the entire point of the op-ed you didn’t read.
He isn’t “sweeping them under the rug” but rather calling them out as heretics, and calling out Christians to do the same.
Before writing a big emotional response like this, I’d recommend reading the linked content.
and fix them
Maybe you should set an example and “fix” all the edgelord atheists.
Atheism isn’t a religion, it’s the absence of it. I can’t fix them because they’re not a group or club. Also, they don’t follow a book with a god that tells them to “take the dust out of your own eye first”, Christians do. So maybe follow your own teachings, instead of trying to impose them on others
I totally get your point, but I think there is validity in calling into question your right to identify as a member of a given religion when you go directly against your religion’s teachings.
Except what are the “real” teachings? How do you know? Who is the authority? Where is the solid evidence. The god of the Bible is silent on the matter of our interpretations over the centuries (if he even exists).
The Bible seems to condemn homosexuality in a few places and condemns “sexual immorality”. But interpretations of these passages and how they relate to many other passages are numerous, each person claiming to have it all figured out. Some think the OT doesn’t count anymore. Some think it still does but Jesus is essentially a get out of jail free card, some think Jesus is all about love, some define love to include various levels punishment, some believe God creates pre-damned people. Some think homosexuality is fine but the passages refer to sexual abuse. So we come back to the question: which interpretation is “correct”?
These books are translated from content written millennia ago. The gospels were written a generation after Jesus and we don’t have the sources. The oldest version of books in the OT dates centuries after the originals. Thus, evidence is weak that the originals said the same thing as the current version. We have insufficient evidence for divine inspiration in the writing, copying or translating of said materials.
When evidence is lacking then the only alternative, belief (faith) provides a very unreliable source of information.
There is no such thing as a religion having objective “teachings.”
It’s always been subjective.
Normal people are Jews and Muslims, and extremists like the genocidal Israeli colonizers, and the similarly genocidal Wahhabist/Salafi terrorists are still Jews and Muslims.
There is no “true” understanding of these religions.
If someone claims to be “a Christian,” they are. There is no other qualification. Whether such a person adheres more or less to common Christian principles is a separate issue, let alone that there are so many splinter groups of “Christians” that the phrase “common Christian principles” barely has any meaning anyway.
“No True Scotsman” is when you attempt to protect your generalized statement by placing counterexamples outside the bounds of the statement. But in the case of Christianity, people who don’t love are self-selecting out of that group by the words of the founder himself, who said “By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
I’m not saying they aren’t a Christian, and the OP isn’t saying that either. The person who is hateful is saying that they aren’t a Christian, as surely as a person who kicks puppies for fun is saying that they aren’t a dog lover. They could swear up and down later that they can’t be a puppy kicker because they’re a dog lover, but the fact that they’re kicking puppies self-selects them out of that group.
Incidentally, the wording of the fallacy here is an important point to observe. The qualifications for being a Scotsman are that someone is geographically or genetically connected to Scotland; and while there are fiddly gray areas at the edges, no one can say that you’re not a Scotsman because of a thing you do because the qualification is a connection to a place.
But the qualifications for being a Christian are explicitly a thing you do. Well, a thing you do and a thing you believe, but those two things are inherently linked by the fact that the object of belief (Jesus) commands the action (love).
Technically, yes. It’s a fallacy to call all of the hateful christians “not real”. Since there’s just so many that identify and are identified as christians that are hateful, it’s mostly an academic distinction.
It IS interesting that so many christains don’t follow their own faith. For it is true that to be an overtly hatefuly or bigoted person is to ignore the core teachings of christianity.
Also fun is technically, while it is a fallacy in the general sense, in the Christian religion they actually talk about false Christians as part of Christianity. So in a general sense it is a fallacy, but by its own rules they can be called as such and technically isn’t a fallacy. False prophets, pharisees, antichrist and whatnot.
I think the people downvoting you might not be familiar with the “No true Scotsman” fallacy.
Important to understand that there’s also a form of civil war going on within the Church in the US between the more liberal churches, which this pastor represents, and the conservative, evangelical churches, which Mike Johnson represents.
Can confirm.
In my town, a lot of the churches are more about peace and love and helping the community. They fly lgbtq+ flags. Their biggest outdoor events involve feeding homeless, or cleaning the parks.
They absolutely hate these mega church types, and often get lumped into the shit.
That sounds a lot more Christ-like (feed the hungry, give as much as you can to the poor etc) than whatever mutation the evangelicals are worshipping.
There’s a church near me that flies a pride flag. Now, I’m not Christian (or LGBTQ) so I wouldn’t go to pray there, but I was happy to see it. Too many places of worship make the news for how hateful they are. It’s nice to see one advertising how inclusive they are.
Again, I’m not Christian and thus not an expert on Jesus, but from what I know his message was a pretty good one. Help the poor, the sick, and anyone else who needs assistance. If more churches actually followed Jesus instead of screaming that the Bible says you should buy more guns, assault immigrants, hate people different from you, and worship Trump while giving the pastor as much money as possible, then maybe they would be in better shape.
Important to note that the sides are in like a 5:1 ratio and Johnson is on the larger side.
Also the liberal churches are far older and are shrinking; denominations and mega-churches who act like Johnson’s are growing.
Young people see it all as a bunch of bs, except the radical ones, which drives religion to greater and greater insanity.
It’s also a simple matter of funding.
The megachurches preaching prosperity gospel, cramming 10,000 people into a building, and hoarding their wealth (most don’t pay apportionments to a larger denomination that is used to fund service projects) find it easier to keep the doors open than the little churches that focus on compassion and community service.
It just dawned on me that evangelicals are the evangélicos in South America. Let me tell you, South America being 90% Catholic, we see evangelicals as crazy fanatics. If someone told me that an evangélico was part of the government in the country I grew up with, most people would immediately dismiss whatever they have to say about people going to hell or whatever.
I guess the only difference with this guy is that he’s wielding too much power, which makes him dangerous. But other than that, anything he has to say will be met with “sure, sure, old man, praise the lord whatever, go pray somewhere far away from me.”
You know, watching religion decline in the west largely as a result of the more fanatical like Johnson, I kinda hope their side wins so we can be done with it. There are few things that are more of a cancer on society (globally as well) than religion and the dogmatic approach to the world that it espouses.
It’s worse than that, he’s a Republican
The Devil having found no traction with drug addicts, thieves & prostitutes, and perl programmers has decided to use Christian leaders.
It would be believable if the first groups didn’t entirely compose last one.
I agree that the devil would go after perl programmers, as sloth is a sin.
Something something who doesn’t remember Black Perl?
Matthew 7:15-20
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
“I’ll take ‘Metaphor Translations’ for $100, Alex.”
