151 points
*

It’s the same story with tons of films: Taxi Driver, Joker, The Boys, Watchmen. They get universal praise from the left and right.

The Left: “This insightful satire shows the protagonist’s slow descent from obsession and inceldom into terrorism and psychopathy. It serves as a stark reminder of how these thought patterns are the beginnings of a societal tragedy.”

The Right: “I fucking love this guy. He just shoots the people he doesn’t like. Based. Highly recommended.”

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81 points

To anyone who thinks this may be exaggerated, it’s not.

My former friend got swept up into the right-wing pipeline hard these last handful of years.

Right-wing often folks like these characters because they unabashedly hurt people they think justify being hurt. Just like they would like to be able to do.

Once my friend started ranting about how he thinks the US is “overdue for another genocide” then staunchly defended himself over it, I told him to never fucking come back.

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6 points

You forgot Punisher. My first thought was “here we go, it’s Punisher all over again”.

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1 point

Leftist ideals are good. Right wing methodology gets them enforced.

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Honestly? Because he’s a good character. No one takes his morality to heart that wasn’t already deeply damaged, but a character who builds their psyche and motivations around trauma and idiosyncrasies creates a fascinating piece of a story, nonetheless. Similarly, Breaking Bad is never viewed as a tutorial on losing your morality by a thousand cuts, people view it as the chronicle of an intelligent character intentionally blinding themselves to the damage they cause and reacting in a relatable way. The fall from grace and subsequent dwelling in hell is a beautiful story arc and there’s a reason it’s employed so frequently.

Except /pol/. They’re into him for other reasons.

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38 points

I remember coming across a post of tumblr where someone said that if a guy says his favorite movie/tv show is Breaking Bad, Rick and Morty or Fight Club, you should run immediately.

The reason was that while these are good works exploring complex, broken and often violent men, a certain subset (the kind of people who would claim that one of those was their favorite of all time) doesn’t have the reasoning ability to understand that they’re the villains of their universe and should not be idolized.

Rorschach easily fits within the same mold as Tyler Durden, Rick Sanchez and Walter White, a complex and entertaining protagonist who’s also a terrible person who no one should want to be.

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43 points
*

That is a garbage reason to run immediately.

Tumblrtards are kind of infamous for magical thinking, often bordering on or just outright being delusional, being unimaginably pretentious, incredibly emotionally unstable, and absolutely loving to glom onto bandwagons of virtue signalling one-upsmanship as well as hate brigading ideas they dont understand and people that they dont like.

They often jump to conclusions ludicrously.

Here is what I mean. If a person’s favorite movie /is/ Fight Club, all you have to do is then ask them ‘why?’.

If you tell me your favorite movie is American Psycho, and the reason why is that you think its a gripping, iconic film criticizing the superficiality and violence of the chauvanistic capitalism of the late 80s…

…that is a lot different than if your reason is that Bateman is just so cool and crazy!

See the context of this ‘advice’ is ostensibly whether or not you should be a friend or partner of someone.

If you are deciding who to have in your circle by whether or not they like one of three objectively popular and excellent films, which are misunderstood by some, but not others…

…then you are actually being very shallow, and impersonal.

Superficial, even.

Right like with Rick and Morty I can tell you I loved the show for the first few seasons…

…but then its quality went down, culminating in the show eventually entirely abandoning one of its main foundational truisms:

Life is brutal, unpredictable and unfair.

The latest seasons of the show abandoned the total /randomness/ factor that defined the earliest episodes, and replaced it with much more standard… and structured plots.

The fanbase clamored over fan theories and details, anything to make there be a grand overarching plot, continuity, and eventually they got it.

But to me that is the show betraying itself. There isnt supposed to be continuity. It is supposed to be unpredictable. Most fans of the show entirely missed the point, and thus cringe ensued.

Now say what you will about my interpretation of the show here…

… but its a little more nuanced than uh, Rick is zany Pickle man.

And I dont think my interpretation indicates I am some kind of maladjusted chauvanist fascist.

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11 points
*

Look, I love Fight Club. Fight Club is a big step in my process towards becoming less of an asshole. Worked as intended, 10/10, would reconsider my perception of the world again.

But even I can see how, particularly for a time in the 00s and sometimes beyond the examination of toxic masculinity became the iconification of toxic masculinity. It’s not “if they say it’s their favorite film, run”, it’s “man, on the aggegate all of those did the opposite of what they were ostensibly trying to do”.

Never, ever, ever underestimate the ability of the public to miss the point. Any interpretation of media, no matter how obvious and intented, will trigger “you’re just reading too much into it” or “leave your politics out of my movie” comments.

Also, I have terrible news about what your interpretation indicates, because yikes. It’s not that what you’re describing is inaccurate, it’s that “it was cool when it was hardcore, uncut nihilism justifying why the main character is right to be an asshole, and then it sold out” is not looking great for that armchair psychoanalysis you’re inviting.

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6 points

But what if I answer that I liked American Psycho, not because it’s incredibly deep view masculinity of the 80’s and all that philosophical stuff, but because it’s funny.

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2 points

Tumblrtards are kind of infamous for magical thinking

As an occultist, I can confirm that there isn’t a lot of thinking or magic to be found on Tumblr.

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-6 points

And yet you ran into the point directly.

This isn’t magical thinking, as you said it yourself, either you like American psycho because of 0 media literacy (in which case we all agree you’re undesirable to date for a Tumblr user)

Or you like American psycho because of the reasons you cited, which mind you aren’t bad reasons to like it, but it makes you a film bro. To consider it amond your top movies means all you care about in media is how it made you think about society, and honestly if the most you’ve though about society was when watching American psycho then I can see why someone wouldn’t want to date you.

The Tumblr rule of thumb isn’t entirely about not dating bigots (though bigots do tend to be weeded out by this check which was kind of the point), it’s also about avoiding dating asshats in general. What does it say about you that you like Rick and Morty because you agree that life is brutal, unpredictable and unfair? What does it say in the context of someone debating whether they should date you?

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What does it say about me that my favorite movie is, and I apologize in advance because I’m speaking genuinely, The Game?

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5 points

It says about you that you are a wonderful dude who is handsome and likely has a huge penis.

Also, unrelated, I too love that film as my favorite.

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1 point

Damn its been a while since I’ve seen that.

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1 point

The equation has changed for Rick and Morty in the last two seasons. Rick is going to therapy. He knows he’s broken and he’s working on improving. It’s been a major point in a lot of the best episodes recently. It’s no longer possible to idolize Rick. You can only relate to him if you’re capable of admitting that you too are broken and need help.

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4 points

Yep, for normal folks good characters don’t have to be good people.

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78 points

I don’t like him. I never understood why he has my parents fighting on his mask wth?!

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9 points

I just want you to know I went to my partner in the other room to tell them about this comment. well played.

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4 points

And I told mine about your comment

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3 points

Me too! But as a large language model, they are unable to provide counseling services and gave me a number I can call.

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1 point

The circle is complete

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56 points
*

The internet is a place where nuance goes to die and everyone talks out of their ass. Watchmen was all about nuance. Here’s why I think this post is full of shit:

Rorschach was an extremely flawed individual. However that title could basically be applied to every single hero except Nite Owl I. A huge portion of Watchmen revolves around that while none of the characters are necessarily admirable they all have some redeeming qualities.

Calling Rorschach an "incel man child " is an idiotic oversimplification of his character. He didn’t decide he hated women after watching too many Andrew Tate videos; Rorschach went though an extreme amount of childhood trauma. We see how horrifying the situation was via flashbacks. Even after all of that, he manages to rise above it all and become a genuine hero. He only went full psycho after being exposed to the most vile shit Moore could get printed. There’s even a whole subplot which more or less mocks attempts to be an armchair psychiatrist and dismiss him outright.

Rorschach’s philosophy also doesn’t exist in a vacuum. A huge part of his role is an ideological counterpoint to Ozymandius, who is the ultimate “ends justify the means” type of person. The entire last act makes you appreciate Rorschach’s philosophy a lot more. The ending of the book presents a “Lady or the Tiger?” situation where you’re not really sure which of the two was more right.

Finally, he has a decent number of badass moments. The whole “you’re locked in with me” is straight up cool. It is on some level meant to be such. It’s hard not to look at him and be on some level impressed.

Rorschach isn’t someone you’re supposed to idealize. However you’re not supposed to just dismiss him either.

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22 points

For whatever reason Internet Media Discourse™ can’t include the possibility that a character is meant to be sympathetic to some extent but ultimately wrong. They’re either perfect and did nothing wrong or an irredeemable monster, no in between.

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10 points

I honestly wonder how many people have actually read Watchmen. I feel like the discourse around a lot of this stuff is driven by people who have read the cliff notes or are just blindly upvoting shit.

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7 points
*

It’s mainly the movie.

In the movie he’s pretty much the only one of them all that actually holds on to his morals. He goes the whole movie practicing what he preaches while everyone else is shown to do the opposite.

The comedian was just an abusive power hungry drunk.

Ozymandius was willing to kill millions for “the greater good”

Dr Manhattan was too removed from his own humanity to care about anything anymore

Night owl and the purple girl I can’t remember gave it all up entirely and then they fuck meanwhile she was still in a relationship with Dr Manhattan.

Rorschach was the only one in the movie that actually held to his morality the whole movie. Especially with the scene of him unmasked as a begger on the street and that’s how he learned about the goings on in the city. He actively lived a life of poverty to help him be a better hero.

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5 points

Absolutely right, although I would say Nite Owl is also flawed, at least the second one. He was only a hero because he a) worshipped the first Nite Owl and b) he felt like a loser and couldn’t get it up when not in costume, basically turning his vigilante life into a sort of fetish.

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3 points

Yeah I was talking about the first Nite Owl. I think the second one is called Night Owl.

The first one is honestly just a chill dude.

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39 points

Because most people haven’t actually read Alan Moore’s Rorschach, they’ve seen Zac Snyder’s Rorschach. These are not the same character

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4 points
*

If I remember correctly, there was talk about how closely the movie followed the graphic novel when it was being made and im sure that didnt help people want to to check out the source material.

I think most people aren’t interested in both mediums. Especially at the time most people only really experience fiction from some sort of film/television

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2 points

The movie was very much an abridged version of the novels. Meaning all the nuances and hints that were disseminated throughout the pages or in the backgrounds had to be set aside until we are left with the movie version. A very “Loyal Stupid Paladin” character, which really isn’t a misrepresentation; it is the same character. Just, you are not given quite enough in the movie to see where he’s actually coming from.

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