Pope Francis has formally approved allowing priests to bless same-sex couples, with a new document explaining a radical change in Vatican policy by insisting that people seeking God’s love and mercy shouldn’t be subject to “an exhaustive moral analysis” to receive it.
The document from the Vatican’s doctrine office, released Monday, elaborates on a letter Francis sent to two conservative cardinals that was published in October. In that preliminary response, Francis suggested such blessings could be offered under some circumstances if they didn’t confuse the ritual with the sacrament of marriage.
The new document repeats that rationale and elaborates on it, reaffirming that marriage is a lifelong sacrament between a man and a woman. And it stresses that blessings should not be conferred at the same time as a civil union, using set rituals or even with the clothing and gestures that belong in a wedding.
But it says requests for such blessings should not be denied full stop. It offers an extensive definition of the term “blessing” in Scripture to insist that people seeking a transcendent relationship with God and looking for his love and mercy should not be subject to “an exhaustive moral analysis” as a precondition for receiving it.
Fuck that guy.
Sounds like the Pope needs to mind his own fucking business.
“You can have our blessing but only during events that don’t even resemble that thing you want to be more equivalent legally to hetero couples.”
This just kind of seems disingenious. Like what is he saying? You either condone their marriages or you don’t.
more equivalent legally
This is a straw man. The pope’s decision is about a religious issue, not a legal issue.
Except married couples get legal benefits that actually matter in reality that same-sex couples don’t get. So its not a strawman. It is shit that actually happens to real people.
Except married couples get legal benefits that actually matter in reality that same-sex couples don’t get.
That’s not the case in the UK.
So its not a strawman.
It’s probably not the case where you live either.
You don’t get legal beneficts from having a religious marriage. Only for a legal marriage, that is always possible unless your state is a behind hell hole
It’s not disingenious. By the official scriptures, a religious marriage is between a man and a woman. A change like the current one needs already to be accepted by the highest cardinals, that have been in history notoriously fundamentalist.
A religious marriage is still not allowed. But the receiving of an “informal” blessing for future happiness and prosperity now is.
This is a necessary step to slowly allow more, that will come with the slow redefining and adaptation to modern times of the scriptures.
adaptation to modern times of the scriptures
The scriptures don’t adapt, only their interpretation.
Ranvier is completely correct. There is no definite version of the bible even if you went back to the original languages. If you add up all the text variations that are known as of today the number exceeds the number of total words in the NT. And when you add in translation issues the problem is endless. Plus all the stuff that looks like it was never in there originally, like the endings of Mark or the Adultress in John. The Bible is like a much dumber version of Wikipedia.
That’s untrue, scriptures have been adapted many many times. There’s no one agreed upon definition of what the Bible even is, varying significantly between different sects of Christianity, and even more as we broaden to other Abrahamic religions. There’s near endless variations of the different texts. Translation, copying, and selection of which texts to include in a scripture is inevitably bound up in interpretations, they’re inseparable. New ideas, biases, agendas, and shifts in meaning will work their way into the translation or copying of older texts or what sources to derive the translations from. Words don’t stay the same over time in any language and are constantly shifting in meanings.
Now some religious people may say, God inspires the people who select what religious texts to use, their copying, and their translations, to ensure perfect unchanging meaning over time. But outside of invoking miracles this is an impossibility. But this is what people who take a literal interpretation of the Bible believe.
Barring miracles though, start with development and history section below if interested, but there’s countless opportunities for the scriptures to have changed, and they are still changing. There’s no way they couldn’t, language itself wouldn’t let it stay static no matter how much effort is put in to it, not even thinking of all the other factors and agendas that have changed them or what they even consist of many times over thousands of years. There’s no one definitive Bible that sprang fully formed out of some vacuum, and even if that somehow occured it’d have to drift overtime with language itself.
I don’t know if you’re a Catholic or not, I just want to say more generally - I don’t see how any Catholic, including the pope, has the right to opine on the finer points of official scriptures while priests are raping children and the church covers it up.
The Pope is not a global censuring big brother. You have to point to your state/country’s Christian representation if it has any power in the media or politics.
You might also want to generalize that a priest of any religion can be problematic.
people don’t know about Vatican 2 where they finally change mass from Latin to whatever the local language was in FUCKING 1962. I’ve been to Latin masses. I thought it was cool, but I’m glad they switched. My grandpa complained the church went pop with Vatican 2.
For this to work you have to take on a catholic perspective. For them a marriage isn’t just a legal affirmation of partnership with tax advantages, it is a clearly defined sacrament that is explicitly for a man and a woman. They can’t just change that, it’s a defined fundamental element of the religion.
This radical change in doctrine (from a catholic perspective) is basically them trying to work around the fixed framework that has no room for interpretation, while still wanting to be more accepting. So they create a second marriage for non heterosexual couples.
As an atheist I must say this seems like a significant step. The church still has numerous flaws and isn’t for me, but I definitely commend this olive branch.
I guess I’m just cynical or something because they need to makeup a new special hang out because the old one is only for people with specific genitals. Its just weird man, that the apparent source of all love would lock it with barbed wire.
Just look at the change that already happened. Just a good decade ago the official catholic position was that non heterosexuals are living in sin and will go to hell, they are not welcome in churches and they won’t be blessed.
Now it’s gods love shows in many ways, he should judge and not the church, and everyone who seeks to be blessed can get officially garried by them in holy gatrimony.
Is it really so bad they try to loophole to stay in line with the scripture?
Then the religion isn’t for you. It’s not for me either. The fact that there are so many hoops to jump through, simply to satisfy the world’s worst library of Bronze and Iron age fanfic nonsense, makes me shake my head at the whole exercise.
The fact remains though, that it’s incredibly important to a lot of people, and if they want to try to square the circle in a way that tends towards justice, then I’m not going to come down hard on them. Pick your battles and whatnot.
Okay, whatever.
Let’s say I create a club (I’m picturing Calvin’s “Girl Haters” club). I can make whatever rules I want for my club. I can define ceremonies and rituals, and I can kick anyone out who doesn’t follow my rules. What I can’t do is tell anyone else what they can do.
So the Pope can say whatever he wants about what it means to be Catholic, but only Catholics should care.
I’d agree with you but for the fact that the Catholic Church has historically spent a ton of money lobbying to keep same-sex marriage illegal.
The Catholic Church is very much a political institution.
It would be nice if we didn’t have to pay attention to regressive extremists, but they are unfortunately very influential.
I get where you’re coming from. At the same time, they are such a large club that this will impact many people…some members of the club hold political positions around the world, for instance.
Yep, true enough. The first part I don’t care to much about - if your club has rules you don’t like, leave the club. The second part is problematic because some clubs think even non-members should follow their rules.
Yup, definitely.
I’ve learned that some people aren’t good at making ethical decisions, and actually use religion as a moral compass. So they might not disagree with any anti-gay rules, but will still follow any pro-gay rules.
I didn’t think people were serious when they asked “If you don’t get your morals from religion, where do they come from?”. Some are. They genuinely don’t get it.
This is a PR move, don’t fall for it.
Quotes from the man himself, on how much he actually supports marriage equality and LGBTQ peolle:
“I cannot hide my concern for the family, which is threatened, perhaps as never before, from within and without. Fundamental relationships are being called into question, as is the very basis of marriage and the family. I can only reiterate the importance and, above all, the richness and the beauty of family life.”
“What is at stake here is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother, and children. At stake are the lives of so many children who will be discriminated against in advance, depriving them of the human maturation that God wanted to be given with a father and a mother.”
“[Marriage equality] is not a political struggle; it is the destructive attempt toward God’s plan.”
“”[The push for marriage equality is] the envy of the Devil, by which sin entered the world, which cunningly seeks to destroy the image of God.”
Don’t fall for their lies.
Yep - this is just derogatory and demeaning, underlining the exclusion in order to make it hurt more.
If anyone doesn’t see it - just replace ‘same-sex’ with ‘black’.
Fine, we’ll let you in the building, but only in the basement, and you don’t touch anything the white folk might want to use.
