I’m going to try and keep this clear and concise.
I’m not confident in my parenting. I don’t feel like I’ve been a good parent, but I have done the best that I can with the tools and resources that I have.
My 18 y/o has lived with us since she was 4. My partner has been in my 18y/o’s life since they were 13 months old.
18y/o is copy->paste of their deadbeat mother and I don’t know what to do about it. I don’t know what I can do about it at this point.
I have tried to instill structure, while allowing wiggle room at times. I recognize that it’s my job as the parent to draw hard lines and it’s my kids job to push the boundaries and cross those lines.
18y/o is almost mute around us. Doesn’t communicate much of anything beyond surface level ‘pleasantries’. And it’s more often than not, anything but pleasant. They (biological female) are diagnosed with ADHD, ‘change disorder’, anxiety and depression. I’ve done so much reading trying to figure out this person and how I can help, but nothing seems to help. Kid has never really be honest with therapists. Lies for no reason, and doubles down even when presented with irrefutable evidence that they’ve been caught. If I had to ‘self-diagnose’, they have ODD and are a sociopath, but I’ve seen how they behave around friends and peers. They only have disregard for us. Outside the home, they are a people pleaser. But if we suggest something, or ask for something to be done, it’s a fight, every time.
They are a senior in high school, is a good student when there’s nothing rocking their boat, but had steadily declining grades as the school year presses on. I have no idea what’s going on in their life, everything is responded to with a random selection of the following list:
I don’t know
I don’t remember
I don’t know how you want me to answer that
Do you want me to respond?
I don’t see what the problem is.
I don’t see how this is a big deal.
The current argument is regarding whether we should be expected to wake them up for school in the morning. I’ve already put my foot down about it, and since December 1st, they’ve already walked themselves to school twice because they overslept.
They are impossible to motivate. When things finally come to a head and an argument breaks out, which typically boils over because there can be no constructive conversation with someone who is either unable or unwilling to have a conversation. And only when the argument breaks out do we get any action on anything, and then it’s an overcorrection. For example, we’ve been pushing for them to fill out scholarship applications for 8 months. We’ve had friends provide spreadsheets with links to what we collectively think are viable scholarships, for no action responses. Then when we finally get a break in the wall, they fill out scholarship applications for tens of thousands of dollars for enrollment in a school states away with misleading GPA information. We are not in a financial position to accommodate that kind of enrollment, even if we wanted to support the decision. It comes off as an “I’ll show them” move.
Nevermind the drivers license thing. Can’t get them to get off their ass and get their license. It’s been a battle for 2 years. Something always goes wrong. Last time I pressed on it hard, we ended up in intensive outpatient therapy.
They’re unmanageable and I don’t know what to do for or with them. Our home is small, 800 sqft and it’s a hell hole. My partner has almost left me twice over this kid’s behavior over the years. Partner and kid do not get along at all at this point, and has lead to a false CPS report so my kid could try and move in with their crush’s family.
There so much context missing but there’s no time or room for 18 years of back story.
I don’t know if there’s a question here, but I need help or support, or something. Any stories or advice anyone cares to relay would be appreciated. I’m terrified that once this kid leaves, I’m never going to hear from them again. But I can’t control that, and I recognize it.
Thanks for reading.
I think there’s a lot that you aren’t telling us. You seem to focus a lot on their behavior and on the behavior of their mother (who isn’t in the picture, is that right?), but are not giving much of a description of how you or your partner behave towards them, beyond the forceful adjectives like ‘push’, ‘press’, and ‘drill’. That’s a huge element, as it takes two to tango in relationships.
You also speak of them in extremely derogatory terms like “getting them off their ass” or “not letting them freeload like their deadbeat bio mom” or calling them a fucking sociopath??? I can only imagine that they pick up on that lack of respect for them and respond accordingly. Kids aren’t stupid.
It seems like you have a lot of unresolved issues that you might be taking out on them and if possible I would echo the other commentor recommending therapy—but for YOU, as an individual.
This could have been written about me by the parents I do not speak to anymore.
This could have been written about me by the parents I do not speak to anymore.
Samesies. And it can be said the same about my kid by me. Fortunately he’s only 4. That’s why I’m in therapy.
That is so awesome, I’m glad you’re in therapy and working on yourself. It’s hard to unlearn those toxic behaviors. I’m expecting my first and am trying to find one for myself; my biggest fear is treating mine like I was treated because it’s the only parenting model I know. Thankfully my spouse comes from a much more loving environment and has helped me so much just by being an example of how a supportive family should function.
Wishing you and your family the best
Story time.
The really funny thing is that the turning point in my relationship with my parents was when I googled a friends name. He was a musician.
I had a CD of his that I lost in a car that I sold to a rando on Craigslist a few years prior to our story.
When I googled him I found a blog where he had started documenting restoring this car (a 1990 Volvo wagon, of all things). He had found my friends CD. The blog went dark after only a few posts but I was intrigued. He catalogued a few other things of mine he found in the car, namely a wig that I used in a costume, and an herb grinder (which he documented as a wig-care-product) and I was amused at the stories he was coming up with for my stuff.
Googled the guy. Found him on an enthusiasts forum for this type of car (honestly the internet is an amazing thing).
Found a post from him from where he was introducing himself and plugging the aforementioned blog a couple days after the first blogpost.
In the post, he talked at length about the process of buying the car, including a very specific anecdote from when we test drove it.
I wasn’t home to actually handle the sale of the car. My dad was. And apparently my dad ranted to this complete stranger about how much of a shit kid I am. In so much length and detail that this random person felt the need to retell his rant on the internet to countless other random strangers, including me…said shit kid.
That rant sounded exactly like op.
Next place my mind went…what are the odds that of all the random strangers my dad meets in a day, and out of all the people in his actual circle, the only one he vented to about me would also write a post documenting it for me to stumble on by accident? Probably zero. Ergo he must’ve been talking shit about me to anyone who would listen.
In retrospect I admit I was a shit kid (well, presenting as a shit kid). But in retrospect I also realize that I was through a pit of depression and anxiety and a ton of shit that came along with it. And later diagnosed with ADHD. In retrospect, it should have been painfully obvious to anyone, but especially my parents. But instead of doing anything constructive, it was met with hostility and anger and resentment, and fights constantly broke out over petty shit.
Thats why I feel fine admitting that I was absolutely acting shitty at the time, but I don’t feel fine repairing that bridge after reading all the things he said about me to a complete stranger. What a massive gut punch it is to read such hurtful things about you, from your own father, on a public forum.
I understand where you’re coming from, and yes, there’s 18 years of context missing. I’m self aware enough to recognize that this comment has made me a little defensive. I had hoped that by providing some additional context throughout the conversations I’ve been having all day would fill in some of the gaps but I also understand that these are conversations and not necessarily followed by everyone who has been kind enough to send their opinions.
Defensively, I’m speaking out of frustration and emotion, to a space that doesn’t involve my teen. That should have some weight in this conversation, but your criticism is valid nonetheless.
The short condensed version is that it’s been 13 years lying, deceitful and sneaky behavior, provable fabrication of events, and denials of truths. 13 years of being told by professionals that we need to stop berating the teen to which we’ve been forced to send pocket recordings of events to professionals to disprove what our teen has been telling them was fact. Our teen asks for nothing, expects everything, and doesn’t say please or thank you. We did not raise them this way. Those lessons have either been forgotten or flat out abandoned in their disdain for us.
Our teen doesn’t respect us, our home, our rules. We’re not allowed to expect anything of them, yet they expect everything from us, and without question. Obviously there’s a certain level of providing that a parent is expected to do for their children, but an 18 year old senior in high school is trying to tell me that it’s expected of me to wake them up at 6:30 in the morning if they sleep through their alarm because they were up all night playing fortnite or hanging out on discord. I don’t think so.
And to clarify, I didn’t call them a “fucking sociopath”. Sociopathy is a clinical phrase. Would you feel better if I called it ASPD or anti-social personality disorder? Like I get it, beinc called a sociopath has been bastardized by slang, but it’s still a diagnosis. Albeit, maybe a little antiquated.
Please realize, you’re accusing them of being like this since they were 5 years old. They were barely more than a baby. Of course they’re going to lie, they were a little kid. Of course they weren’t going to follow your rules to a T, they were a little kid. They had no ulterior motives, and yet you’ve completely demonized them as if they did. Since they were FIVE dude.
You’re speaking of them like they are 35 and you’ve been dealing with their shit for 13 years, but they were only 4 or 5 when you too them in. You’ve been raising a child that you’ve been treating as if they’re a monster and are shocked that they don’t respect or like you very much.
Yes, I am aware that you didn’t use the word “fucking” before calling them a sociopath. That was my own emphasis on not being able to believe that you’d rather believe that of your child instead of having empathy for them. I think you’re trying to hide behind breaking everything down to seem very logical to try and rationalize your actions/behavior towards your child over the years.
Again, as a child that came from a similar environment, if you have any wish of salvaging this relationship, I would focus heavily on some introspection and accountability, and hope they’d be willing to accept some sort of apology in the future. I really wouldn’t be surprised if they were angry at you for a long time.
I’ve already addressed some of this elsewhere, but I felt it necessary to follow up directly. My teen has always been troubled. They have always been highly sensitive. Since they were 5, when we became a stable fixture in their life. We have provided anything they have asked for, from extra curriculars, to personal support as we were able. My teen is a pretty good artist. I work in the fine art reproduction field. I own my own company. I can tell you unequivically (albeit in my opinion), that while my teen has solid artistic talent, they’re not unique with their style, or subject matter (character designs). When my teen is given an assignment to break out of that preference, they shine. They excel. But it’s never because they want to. They’re an extremely talented photographer. They currently use my Nikon D200/D70. But they have never picked up the camera unless it was a school assignment. I have even offered to buy a new camera body, but like most things, it appears to be a passing ADHD phase. They achieved Junior Black Belt and up to Blue in senior when they were younger. The only rule we ever had was that they needed to participate in an extracurricular. One. Singular. It was up always to them. And only when a shouting match breaks out is there ever a push to do something else. Moving into ice hockey was another item where they were skilled, seemed to be enjoying themselves, but they claim to not remember any of the people they played with who are peers at their school. A one year stint in color guard, where they genuinely seemed happy followed that before another breakdown and it became much harder to encourage the participation.
My teen has been through several friend groups, and we only ever hear their side, and about how everyone else is wrong or has wronged them. It’s a pattern of behavior that becomes clear over time. I understand that I didn’t detail any of this out. I honestly wasn’t expecting as harsh as a response as I’ve received. I also tried to be pretty forward with my comments that I am not claiming to be right. I’m claiming to be stuck. The fact that I’m reaching out at all, and am actively engaging should be an indicator that I actually give a shit and am trying to figure out a path forward. A path to be better for my teen. I have empathy for my teen. I recognize that they’re struggling. The difficulty is that while they’re struggling, it’s my cross to bear and that, in turn, means I’m struggling.
I don’t think that expecting an 8 year old to know they have to pee or not, and further, an 8 year old shouldn’t be fighting back tears because of our reluctance to believe them when yell at us that “they don’t need to go” when we insist that they try to use the bathroom before we go on a walk or a road trip or whatever.
I don’t think that a 7 year old should be stealing from special needs classmates because they want the thing more than the special needs classmate needs whatever that thing is.
I don’t think that a 10 year old should be telling anyone who will listen that all we do is yell at them while we’re able to disprove it with audio and video playback. *Edit: I don’t think parent’s should ever feel that this should even be necessary. How do you think it felt to me that I had to do this? How do you think it feels that I feel the need to protect myself from my kid?
I don’t think that we, as parents, should be subjected to incoherent rants blaming us for scenarios that never happened. I understand that my teen is troubled. I have often wondered if someday they’ll get a schizophrenia diagnosis because of their insistence that whatever their brain has convinced them has taken place, in realty only took ever happened in their mindplace.
I don’t believe that we should have to accommodate someone who fails to communicate because a conversation doesn’t go exactly how they have prepared for. If we stray from the script they have prepared, then their world melts down.
My teen has mental health issues. I am woefully unequipped to deal with them, especially any longer. Once they turned 14 in our state, I can no longer force them to see their therapist. I can no longer force them to talk to their psychologist. I can no longer enforce them to take their meds. I can make strong suggestions, but that goes nowhere, as I’ve evidenced elsewhere in this comment thread. We have maintained as long as we’ve been able to. And at this point, I’m just trying to salvage my relationship with them. I hope you can understand.
it’s been 13 years lying, deceitful and sneaky behavior, provable fabrication of events, and denials of truths
Okay, but that’s just typical child-with-ADHD. Show me a child with ADHD and I’ll show you a liar who fabricates events and denies truths.
Would you like to know why? Read on!
Because the child with ADHD has been held to standards that are absolutely completely out of whack with who they are biologically (yes ADHD is a biology condition which is why medication is effective). But being children, they aren’t able to articulate. So they lie because it ‘makes the problem go away’. What problem?
The parent asking them if they’ve done their homework. They say yes instead of – No, I haven’t done my homework yet because despite wanting to, I cannot get my body to cooperate with my desires. I absolutely intend to have it done by the time it is due, I’m a good child who enjoys homework and wants to meet those expectations. I’ll do it as soon as my body starts following my brain’s directions and sits down/picks up a pencil. If I tell you I haven’t done it yet, you’ll ask me, “Why?” and I just cannot explain to you because though TheInfamousJ is able to type all this out, that’s because she’s 22 years my senior so has learned a lot of metacognition I don’t have seeing as how my brain isn’t even finished developing yet. I don’t have the words. So yes, Dad [or whatever parent you are], I’ve done my homework because by tomorrow afternoon this statement will be true anyway and it saves me from having to deal with your ish about me, my brain, and how completely unacceptable it and I am to you. … except that time where my body starts following my brain’s directions? It never came before the homework was due. I need help. But you are punishing me rather than assisting me.
and so it goes
They haven’t seen a therapist in a year and only take their meds when they “remember”. College is only a conversation we’re having because they want to be a character designer (which is a job that doesn’t exist). When we bring up our concerns, we’re not being supportive. Like, the conversations are impossible.
I have set the expectation that they will not be permitted to freeload. That what their mother did, and I will never fall victim to that again.
What do you mean by “character designer” is a job that doesn’t exist?
Video games, movies, books, any entertainment has “characters” and someone has to create them, right?
Stop comparing your child to their mother, they are their own person. The problems you’re having are with her and not her mother. Give your child the grace to experience life for themself.
At this point in their life given their age your only option is to help paddle their boat, be pragmatic and help them on their journey. It isn’t your journey anymore, you’re just along for their ride.
Prior to the rise of generative ai, there were a collective of 8-15 positions in the United States for a character designer. Speaking very broadly, it’s typically a contracted position, and not steady work. Usually undertaken by a design firm that does other things as well. I have only been able to have that conversation with them very recently that they should aim for that position, but be prepared to have a more diverse toolset. It’s been a fight every time. All I’m asking them to do is look outside of their bubble. And even then, only managed to get any traction when they couldn’t find “character design” as a collegiate major.
I am not comparing them to their mother. I am protecting myself from what I have already experienced both with the mother and themselves and setting my expectations. If I allowed it, my kid would just melt into their bed at every waking moment. And that isn’t an exaggeration. Either they go to college, or they prepare to pay rent. I’m not typically this kind of person, I’d rather nurture a much healthier relationship, but I feel like they haven’t left me with much choice. There has been ~~nothing ~~ very little rewarding about being a parent in this relationship*, and I’m tired, worn out and sad.
*Anything that I have taken an interest in to try and be supportive has been met with a slapped face of push back.
only take their meds when they “remember”.
I will never fall victim to that again.
maybe consider that it is your resentment of their mother that you are clearly projecting on to them, and your ignorance and dismissal of neurodiversity that are the problem, not the teenager trying to develop and exist in what amounts to an unsupportive environment, your whole post oozes of it.
Ever consider they don’t want to go to college? Or to drive? Ever stop for second to think what the world is like for someone with ADHD and depression? Why those things might be undesirable? (edit to clarify: driving and college being undesirable to a neurodivergent person, not neurodiversity being undesirable)
You’re not interested in who they actually are, since you’ve already decided for yourself (“copy paste” of your ex) and are treating them accordingly. You are the fucking parent.
You’re right about one thing - once they leave they probably won’t want anything to do with you, and it’ll be the best thing for them, but the fact that you’ve convinced yourself that it is out of your control rather than solely in it says it all.
I received a text that said “all done” after their shift at work tonight. I said “I’m on my way”, arrived my teen got in the car said “hey” I responded ‘whats up’ and we drove home in silence. No “thanks for picking me up” nothing at all. And when my partner said “you know you could thank your dad for picking you up” my teen responded “I did”. They did not.
They are rude, and have abandoned any lessons we instilled when they were younger with us. They have decided what kind of people we are as well. The relationship is disfunctional, for sure, but it is not solely my fault. I have tried to provide support networks, they have been on therapy since they were six.
Please try and understand that this has gotten worse over the years even whole in family therapy and one on one therapy for all of us.
and only take their meds when they “remember”.
Those quotes better be because you are direct quoting them and not because you are trying to induce doubt. It is very well known that people with ADHD have trouble remembering (notice, no quotes here) to take their medication. ADHD is an executive function disorder; meaning they have executive dysfunction. Memory is an executive function. What safety net does the family have for the child’s memory failing them? What are your guardrails?
Have you actually planned, strategized, restructured around the needs of one of the inhabitants in your home?
You know the old adage, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”? Looks like no matter how many times your child has their typical struggles, as their outsourced executive function coach and substitute executive function, you haven’t done your part. It’s not shame on your child anymore ;)
I’ll give you a gimme and if it helps, then you can follow up by engaging the services of an ADHD coach – For those who forget to take their medication, put the medication AND WATER next to the bed. Set two alarms. The first one they wake up and take their meds without having to move anything more than their arm. Then they can go back to sleep. The second alarm, a half hour later (because most ADHD meds reach efficacy a half hour after consumption), is their real get up for the day alarm. They should be able to get up more easily due to the efficacy of the medication. It will take 102 practice days, so for 102 days, you need to get up with the first alarm and supervise that the medication has been taken. After that, the routine will be well worn in so that it can be relied on.
Or, if that’s too much effort on your part – Talk to their psychiatrist about moving them to a non-stimulant. Nonstimulants build up in the system and can tolerate several skipped days while still offering benefits. Stimulants cannot seeing as how they lose efficacy within 24 hours.
I hear you. I understand that ADHD is an executive function problem, well informed. The guardrails have been in place for years. We have provided tools. We have provided suggestions. Solutions, and even asked “What would work for you?”. We’ve worked with therapists and psychologists to try to instill habits, but my teen is extremely headstrong and wickedly (falsely) independent. There is nothing more I can do for them unless they want to ask it of me.
My teen learns nothing from their experiences, and does nothing to instill their own good habits. At 18, what else am I supposed to do for them? I’ve been trying to help for years.
Talk to their psychiatrist about moving them to a non-stimulant
In my state, this was off the table at 16, when my teen decided not to waiver me to advocate for their mental health care because they were (and to some degree still are) convinced that I am the source of all that is wrong in their world. I can’t fix that.
You talked an awful lot about your kid.
How are you doing?
Your 18yo sounds like a grown up version of my 4.5 year old. Honestly if you said the arguments were about potty training we’d be talking about the same person.
How were they, when they started living with you full time, with regards to pottying? Difficult? Regressive? Headstrong?
I ask because how you are doing, because I started seeing a therapist for my own struggles with parenting. And it’s probably the best thing I’ve ever done. It really gives a chance to reflect and get honest constructive feedback on how I approach and handle interactions and discipline and whatnot. Most importantly, how to deal with stresses of parenting a difficult kid and not criticize yourself too harshly at every setback.
Please, if you haven’t already, consider a therapist for you, preferably one who specializes in family issues.
Hi.
Not great. I’m actively looking for a therapist because I can’t keep feeling this way.
They have always been difficult. We were told by one therapist “buckle up, because it’s only going to get worse”. Positive reinforcement always led to regressive behavior. Negative reinforcement
I have felt so little positivity from being a parent. I wanted nothing more than to be present and participate in the milestones everyone always talks about. But my teen has made every one of those events a literal fight. Maybe it’s their anxiety and it manifests and anger or whatever, but they can be so hurtful and mean. Then they flip it and tell everyone who listens that it was my fault, and that I don’t support them, or I berate them or whatever. Like, how can any of that be true? I respect their pronouns, and orientation, and who they choose to keep their company with. I ask for bare minimum “with who/where/when” questions, and ask for updates when plans change (I don’t get updates). Then I have to put on the caring parent face when they come home upset because Tammy knocked their Boba over or whatever. We have been clear that all we want for her is success in life, and to be happy with who they partner with and to be safe.
And for what? To be lied to again? To be ignored again?
Its demoralizing and depressing. I’m so sad and I’m looking for a therapist.
You two are stuck in a feedback loop. It’s a really tough spot to be in until you realize it and work on it.
Anxiety in a hostile environment (or the perception of being in a hostile environment) will be met with reciprocal hostility. And then things escalate, and then repressed, and it continues. You two are fanning each others flames. You may be more alike than you realize or care to admit.
Good luck finding a therapist. Remember it’s a lot like dating…you may get lucky on the first meeting, you might find yourself completely incompatible with them, or you may find someone that you’re comfortable enough with to build a good rapport with over multiple sessions.
Not much to add to the topic, but just wanted to point out that you shouldn’t really ‘self-diagnose’ as you call it. For example ‘sociopath’ is not really a diagnosis anymore.
The kid’s an adult now. In my household that would mean a place to live at long as they are in school full time, working full time, or convince me that their alternative is actually reasonable. You also have a list of basic chores for them that are fair based on an even split. Other than that you get the help you ask for. It sounds like the lesson your kid needs to learn now is how to cope with things after your parents stop micromanaging you and it all falls apart.
To get to that point you have to be willing to let everything fall apart. If they move out to couch surf, or be homeless, or something else, you tell them you love them and if they ever want help you will welcome then back and help them figure things out.
But until they want that, they won’t take it.
This is helpful to me. It reminds me a of a conversation I’ve had with with a friend with a similar neuro divergent family member. So thank you for the reminder.
How can we as a family unit enforce those basic chores to be completed? It’s been a trigger fest for ten years and has been the number one issue in our home. Chores are never and have never been done without becoming a problem. I’ve never done the roommate thing so this kind of conflict resolution isn’t something I’ve ever dealt with.
My issues stem from my teens expectations of me. They expect me to wake them up for school or expect me to pick them up from work. It’s absurd.
It sounds like the lesson your kid needs to learn now is how to cope with things after your parents stop micromanaging you and it all falls apart.
This sounds like something my therapist helped me realize about both my kid and myself.
When things come easy and naturally, we (my kid and myself, possibly your kid as well) appear as rockstars, and we feel as rockstars. We get recognized and praised for things that we excel at with little effort.
Thats great and all…until effort is needed. And then panic. And the natural response to that is fight/flight/freeze.
Compounding that, we let perfect be the enemy of good. Subliminally, failing with minimal effort is more acceptable to us than putting in a ton of effort for anything that won’t stroke our egos more than something that comes easily.
This is basically perfectionism.
Now, add ADHD to that and you’ve got quite a mess. You’ve got someone who can easily hyperfocus on things that you don’t want/need them to do, because they get that sweet sweet dopamine…and they are going to hyperfocus because it’s so much easier than working hard and not getting the dopamine.
Honestly I don’t think there’s much to do for it except realization and cognitive behavior therapy. For both of you. Your part is equally important. If they complete a task you need to show honest appreciation for it, even the small stuff. Your tone in these posts comes across as a bit frustrated and fed up. If that tone carries across to your conversation with your kid, they will pick up on that and it’ll contribute to the feedback loop…”why should I even bother if dad doesn’t care”.
Celebrating small victories (tincluding he “participation trophies” that boomers love to joke about while they themselves popularized them) isn’t about empty gestures or making everybody feel special just for warm and fuzzies. It’s a subtle psychological trick to prevent exactly what you’re facing.
Regarding the chores, I’d say you can’t require it, but in my household that would have been where my allowance money comes from. No chores, no money.
They will have to make a choice, maybe several. Your job right now is to let them learn what consequences each choice brings with it so they can start learning to chart their own course.
