or even pseudo-incriminated for attempting to maintain our own life.
It seems so stupid that I’m like a suspect for wanting an exchange of information without dropping my pants and bending over. No, I don’t want cookies. Yes I want to read the article but no, I don’t want to “sign up.”
It makes me feel like being a f*cking hermit. But I prefer to pirate. Even though I’m not that good at it. Screw them. I got two private trackers, a VPN, and I hope that’s enough.
It seems so strange to me that everyone buys the bullshit that personal data is worth very little.
The data brokerage industry is a multi-trillion dollar industry. Yet, there are only ~8 billion people in the world, many of whom don’t have internet access or have very little data being traded. Thus it’s reasonably safe to assume that an average regular internet user’s data is worth somewhere in the region of $1,000 per year.
These companies don’t do anything with the data. We create the data, they collect it and sell it, then whoever buys it is the one that actually makes something from it. If we allow the brokers a very generous profit margin, they are still stealing $500-700 from every one of us, every year.
Personal data worth a lot. 8 billion humans exist. Industry is multi trillion of profit. Even at only a single trillion that’s 1000 dollars per person a year. It’s way more than 1000.
That would mean $8T total. No way it’s that much. Maybe $350 per American.
Wait is this account a bot that can be summoned with the magic incantation chatgpt?
That’s including showing the ads. The data itself isn’t worth that much unless people are viewing them.
As far as I’m aware the valuation is just data brokering - ie, the people collecting data from apps and selling to advertisers.
Then I don’t believe it, Google makes about 200B in advertising revenue a year, serving about a quarter of the internet ads.
Advertising online is not even a trillion dollar market, how can just the data be bigger? Maybe if you count it being sold resold ten times
The efficacy of advertising is sold primarily by advertisers. It’s possibly worth a vanishing fraction of what these ghouls say it’s worth. But so long as buying it and acting like a greedy invasive bastard is more profitable than ignoring it, even by a tiny margin, corporate giants will keep doing it, since the cost to them is a rounding error.
The industry enabling this is large because they get to sell the same garbage to so many bastards.
If you’re online. You need to assume that your data is being used without your permission whether you like it or not. Nothing is going to change. Look at the hordes of brain dead idiots who use tiktok
Nothing is going to change.
That’s the wrong attitude to have. It can change, and arguably it will change once a critical mass of people realise the value being stolen from them.
You can’t build a car without paying for the nuts and bolts. The people who make nuts and bolts don’t know how to build a car, but they’re still paid a fair value based on the fact their product can be used in cars.
We don’t know how to do anything with our data, but we should be paid based on the value derived from it by those that do.
This problem affects everyone, including the people who make laws. It is entirely feasible that we can get enough people on side to change things and make it more fair. Incumbent businesses won’t like that, because it will reduce their profits (100% down to 30%), but what they’re doing now is absolutely wrong. They’d still be taking the piss at 30%, but at least that’s more in line with other industries.
That critical mass will never come because people don’t feel the data has been stolen from them.
Rather, it’s traded in exchange for whatever online services they use.
And to them it’s a decent trade.
I don’t want their money. I just want them to leave me alone. Now, the politicians? They would love their money. And I’m sure big tech lobbyists are already giving them some
Whatever you are getting your hands into remember that there’s plenty of free alternatives and libre products available in the public domain. Supporting these is a good way to unsupport the closed counterpart.
As an OSS advocate, I fully agree. Sadly, OSS alternatives have to compete with easily accessible, slick and well-integrated products that are aggressively positioned. Just imagine all the steps you need to go through, just to install Fennec from F-Droid.
I just installed Fennec from F-Droid and it was like three steps. Search, install, and confirm install. I guess if I didn’t already have F-Droid, it would be more steps to install it, but that’s not too hard either, and you only have to do it once.
It’s easy for you and me. But imagine you’re Joe Everyman. First off, you need to know about F-Droid and where to download it. Then confirm that the browser can install software. And this is where I would imagine many users second-guessing if everything’s legit. And after it’s installed, you’ve got two separate app-stores to deal with. You need to know what you can install where.
If I extrapolate from my mother-in-law, who still can’t wrap her head around the concept of an app-store, let alone alternative browsers, that’s just too much hassle for most people.
“Allow install from unknown source” permission for f-droid, and verifying the f-droid download’s checksum are too complicated/involved for many people, especially when compared to what another commenter rightly called “aggressively placed” spyware-laden alternatives.
Exactly
If you want to pirate, pirate. But there are plenty of free and public domain sources of entertainment and information.
Same with software. It won’t be exactly the same experience but if the goal is truly an altruistic attempt to not give money to bad companies or avoid tracking or whatever… there are ways.
I pirate shit. I am not going to pretend it is some holy struggle. I want things that I don’t/won’t pay for.
Yeah it’s weird how privacy and piracy have blended together over the years.
With some games you need to pirate them if you don’t want a Russian nesting doll of launchers and accounts that are able to leak your information and fill your computer with bloat.
I do find the argument interesting some YouTubers try to make about ad blockers being a form of piracy.
To be fair, it makes sense to liken the use of ad blockers with piracy. Consuming the content without paying for it either way, either without directly paying yourself or without indirectly paying through watching ads. Doesn’t change that ads on most parts of the internet are extremely invasive and far too much.
I feel fully entitled to protect myself from the ads because of the problems with them. But I don’t feel the need to lie to myself about the fact that I’m consuming content without paying for it in some way. Then again I support some content creators that I feel deserve it. Not sure if that helps offset it somewhat or not, but I don’t really care that much either.
Please stop doing this. It just gives bad actors better tools to fuck content creators.
If ads arent chosen and paid to the content creators directly then its a damned cancer on the entire industry and you, by giving them this, are supporting wage theft at best and exploitation at worst
How many content creators have been demonetized for no reason at all yet ads are still injected into their content anyway?
Sorry for being angry about this, but if we as a whole accept this then we are watching enshitification in action and im sick of the amazing thing that is the internet continually get worse
No, I fully believe you’re making different issues into one, which is dishonest argumentation.
Adblockers are functionally equivalent to piracy, the fact that some entities abuse others is a different issue. It’s the same as with gambling mechanics in games, the fact that most people would think that those are predatory and bad does not change that not paying for the game is piracy. It’s possible to be more nuanced about things than to group everything together.
v
Your spelling also doesn’t help your credibility
I don’t see why a free market can’t take care of this problem. Let the suppliers run their ads and if it’s not profitable then let them fold. None of this “please stop using ad blockers our business model sucks and we need you to accept worse overall service so we can stay in business”.
I don’t really care that much either.
This is the most important thing imo. Some people just don’t care (not saying it’s a bad thing). Others do so to each their own.
Sure, let everything require that you pay upfront for everything. Those too poor to afford to pay don’t deserve to have access to it anyway, right?
I’m not saying that ads are good, but having an option for people to pay to access a service that isn’t directly tied to money they have accessible seems better than barring them from that access. At the same time that option cannot be too intrusive or otherwise be too much of a negative before it becomes predatory. We can wish for the world to be perfect as much as we want, that doesn’t make it so. We can work towards a future where people don’t have to work to be able to live comfortably and where we have very different ways to compensate people for their time and effort on top of that. But we’re not there.
I’m not quite sure what you meant by your last paragraph, though.
Well yeah, of course we’re consuming content without paying. But that is not piracy.
The creators are distributing the content freely, and we’re consuming it, while ignoring the ads, because we have the ability to do it.
Is flipping the channel on legacy TV when switching to commercials piracy as well?
Anyone who considers adblocking immoral shouldn’t block anykind of advertising anywhere.
Where did you get that it was immoral from? I don’t see many (anyone?) that have claimed that.
If someone claims adblocking is form of piracy they are also claiming its immoral or bad thing to do. I doubt someone making claim like that would have anything nice to say about piracy.
I mean, why else would people speak against adblocking if they didnt think it was somehow “immoral” or otherwise negative thing to do.
With some games you need to pirate them if you don’t want a Russian nesting doll of launchers and accounts
I’m not a gamer but is this really true? I thought it was the other way around, that pirated games were the ones filled with malware.
Absolutely. Sure pirated games run that risk but communities are big enough to usually snuff it out quickly if it’s a malware filled crack. Going through legitimate means a PC gamer is likely to have steam, epic games launcher, blizzard launcher, EA, Ubisoft, and probably more I can’t think of. Many of these are clunky and slow and demand online connectivity or multiple sign in auths every time you just want to play a damn single player, offline game
Sure pirated games run that risk but communities are big enough to usually snuff it out quickly if it’s a malware filled crack.
Big time. Even rumours of a repackers adding malware blow up on communities like this.
Core characters in the repack community also occasionally ask for and receive donations. I’ve donated to DODI, FitGirl, and Gnarly. Hopefully they receive enough to discourage them from anything malicious but they’re also adored and respected by the community.
Going through legitimate means a PC gamer is likely to have steam, epic games launcher, blizzard launcher, EA, Ubisoft, and probably more I can’t think of. Many of these are clunky and slow and demand online connectivity or multiple sign in auths every time you just want to play a damn single player, offline game
I purchased a Call of Duty title recently and that was a big thing. The amount of ads in the launcher was wild.
I do find the argument interesting some YouTubers try to make about ad blockers being a form of piracy.
This argument makes no sense to me, it would be piracy if I was copying the videos into my own channel and raking in the views. An YouTube channel is more like TV, you’re broadcasting into the wild hoping to get some eyeballs and selling those eyeballs to the highest bidder. It’s up to me if I want to see the ads or not, just like TV.
Ad blocking being likened to piracy would be valid except for the fact that internet ads have always been predominantly intrusive, misleading, predatory, and malicious.
No no it isn’t piracy. Shame on you
for giving them that power to wield they will use it to claim that putting tape on your camera so you cant be spied on is piracy. And thats rediculous, but thats what will happen if we dont stand together and say no no its not piracy just because i didnt want to watch your stupid fucking add on a video that YOU ARENT MONITIZING DIRECTLY. ads that arent payed to the content creator directly is wage theft at best and exploitation at worst
Edit sorry this isnt aimed at you personally beyond the first 8 words. Im not drunk but it does feel a bit like a drunken ramble, guess it touched a nerve. Ill have to reflect on that
Is piracy not inclusive of subverting the means for a producer to profit off of a product when using that product?
The issue I see in it is that businesses have made the assumption that internet adverts are the same as television adverts. They started using them as such and now they are having a hissy fit that they don’t have a captive audience.
If they find a way to force adverts on us, then we will be a captive audience once more.
I think of adblockers as a filter.
Websites can choose to include ads, and I choose to filter them out with ad blockers.
Its no different than me placing a sticky note over every ad on my screen, or turning away and covering my ears when a video ad plays. But ad blockers automate that process and make it a whole lot easier. Simple quality of life
“If you want basic privacy protection, you are a pirate and I hate you.” - Linus Sebastian, professional L generator (abridged)
Did you lose your ability to recognise sarcasm, or did it never develop in the first place?
Of course that’s not what he said, but the issue of web ads is much deeper than the ad revenue or no ad revenue question he is taking a stand on. It has been discussed ad nauseum by more technically minded people than him.
It is not strange. They are greedy. Period. If ever someone is less greedy, then even if only after they die the corp becomes as greedy as possible, ASAP - e.g. Disney.
What’s weird is that we are also hard-wired to be generous, so piracy does weird things to our conscience. If that bothers you, my advice is to learn to tip well irl, and in CASH whenever possible - the WORKERS deserve your aid.
Fuck tipping. American tipping culture enables employers to get away with paying their hospitality service industry employees starvation wages. By giving a big tip you are just telling the employer “Don’t worry about paying your employees a living wage. I got you fam.”
Obviously I still tip depending on where I am, but the minimum amount that is considered socially acceptable.
The ethics are complex for sure… a bit like sailing the high seas:-). I have no right to tell you or anyone else what to do, I just shared my own thought. Fuck the SOBs that started this for sure…but the WORKERS are the ones getting pinched in the middle of that clash of wills:-(.
Also I know of no better way to be generous to my fellow human - unlike some “charities”, this is no hand-out b/c there at least you can be 100% certain that they work. Also, a LOT of people do not tip (or if they do, then not much), thus necessitating a more extreme tipping from those that do if the scales were to ever to be balanced (which they ultimately never will, but still a little bit can help).
This is really a trolly problem through and through: someone puts a human on the tracks (lets say mostly innocent - possibly they were goaded rather than forced into being there but for the sake of argument let us presume they have no malice or any ill intent whatsoever, like this is no scam that they are “in” on, again just for the sake of argument), and a tiny but noticeable pile of your cash on the other, then offers to allow you to pull the lever to switch the track. Fuck the evil POS who would do that for their own amusement ofc but… given that it happened, do you play along and sacrifice your cash to help the human, or allow them to get hit? Let us also presume that you have the “right” to your cash, i.e. you would get it back rather than it being impounded for evidence or whatever.
I choose to play along, knowing full well that the system is unjust. Maybe I am contributing to the problem, but I do not know what else to do that could help in even the tiniest manner. Passing laws to enforce payment of a minimum wage that is actually a livable one seems like an entirely separate matter to me btw - b/c whether you tip or not, or whether you want to tip or not (I saw that you do the former but neither of us really do the latter, though I come closer to that in one manner of speaking), without being forced to, greedy-AF people will never (it seems) voluntarily pay the workers more on their own initiative, so simply “not tipping” in protest seems to me to be an approach doomed to failure. I do not deny that you are correct though - they will certainly take my doing so as their cue that they can continue, not that it would matter if laws were passed to literally prevent that happening - it is just that I cannot control them, I can only control me.
Thank you for this respectful conversation btw:-).
Honestly I think you should re-examine your perspective on charities. Just because they have some amount of administrative overhead doesn’t mean that they are always worse than simply giving money to a random person. That administrative overhead probably helps them operate at a scale that allows them to help far more people than a smaller organization could.
Like, if I give money to a local food bank, that would feed far more needy people than if I went to my local restaurant and bought a bunch of take-out and then went down to a homeless camp and gave random people the take-out. Because food banks have supply chain connections and economies of scale that allow them to buy a lot more food for every dollar than you can get at a restaurant.
By giving a big tip you are just telling the employer “Don’t worry about paying your employees a living wage. I got you fam.”
And what’s the alternative? Giving them nothing and telling yourself that it’s on them?
Yeah no thanks. I hate tipping culture as much as the next guy, but this isn’t how you change that.
I literally stated my preferred approach in the last sentence of that comment.
