after St. Louis police unions instructed officers to publicly display The Punisher’s insignia (the mark of a lawless, fascist murderer) the comic book community was quick to point out the stupidity, and the frankly horrifying message sent by supposed peace officers endorsing a maniac. So it’s a good thing The Punisher personally confirms he hates cops who see him as a friend… making every cop who “wears his mark” or calls themselves a “fan” look like shameful fool in the process.
– Andrew Dyce, The Punisher Confirms: He HATES Cops Who Support Him
You can be fascist, and lawless now? How does that work?
Is he fascist?
I don’t read a lot of punisher comics.
To be perfectly clear about my experience with this character, I have watched the thomas jane punisher movie, which is a straight up vengeance movie.
But I never got the impression the punisher was fascist.
He doesn’t seem like a pro-dictatorship kind of guy.
Is he, in the comics?
No he’s not. The point is that cops wearing his symbol are fucking idiots. The punisher is a lawless vigilante who hates cops. Cops - an organization created to enforce laws - have no business wearing the symbol of a lawless vigilante, and they’re stupid idiots for wearing the symbol of one that hates their whole organization.
Wasn’t his whole thing that he takes the extra steps to stop people from ever doing bad things again? I’ve also not read punisher though.
Yeah but the extra steps are just shooting them in the face or snapping their necks.
Can’t commit a crime if your face was eaten by piranhas
Did one of us misread? Title says fascist murderer like I took it as he kills them.
I would guess you misread that, it seems like a grammatically unlikely interpretation given the context.
In the article, the phrase is describing the punisher in light of the police worship of a " lawless, fascist murderer", so I would expect both of those adjectives to be referring to the punisher.
And I don’t think the punisher is known for killing fascists either, although I’m willing to defer to someone who has read any of the comics.
Grammar is funny that way it could be interpreted your way or it could be interpreted as “fascist who murders”
Well I think the issue is that you equate fascism with pro dictatorship stuff, people being seen as exceptional and above the law and shouldn’t be questioned are part of fascism, look at the adoration Trump gets despite his crimes, look how ready they are to excuse it and look at him like a savior that will fix it all, does that not feel similar to how superheroes are portrayed?
I am using the definition of fascism, yes, to point out that the punisher does not fit that definition.
Your connection between Trump and the punisher is untenable; Trump is an immature wannabe dictator starving for attention living in a self-created world of illusions, deliberately and vocally ignoring the practical realities around him, and paying others to keep him in power as long as possible.
The punisher is a solo vigilante quietly skulking around in the shadows whose main purpose is revenge for his family with no interest in becoming a leader or even a part of society. He takes matters into his own hands, literally.
The video you posted has a pretty strong “i’m 14 and this is deep” vibe, it’s a narrow conclusion-driven critique of extremely limited facets of a few pg-13 movie characters.
Superman was created by two Jewish teens who eventually used the hero to tell stories about fighting specifically fascism, and real world terrors like mine collapses.
None of those heroes want to be a leader, they all have special hideaway places that they self-inter themselves so that they won’t become some sort of leader that they know they shouldn’t be.
The video isn’t a valid critique of any of those heroes. Culturally insensitive American movies making Americans look good or special as the heroes isn’t exactly a new thing or particular to superheroes. Brendan Fraser did it in the mummy. Most movies with a hero from any country do that.
What does it matter who created superman? Or what he did in the past when talking about his specific portrayal in Man of Steel.
And you still keep talking about wanting to be a dictator as it being a core facet of being a fascist, it isn’t
Punisher isn’t fascist but he certainly acts in a way and does things that Fascists like and want to do, hence why he is a such a symbol for the thin blue line cop crowd.
Depends which comics. People say it’s ironic cops use the Punisher skull, they say the character hates cops. These people never read Punisher: MAX. It’s not ironic, it’s right on brand. Plus people that read it in like 2008 are sometimes 30 year old cops now.
It’s like all those non-Catholic Christians who display Crusader symbols. They are forgetting that the Crusaders would have murdered believers like them in a heartbeat. Plus the Crusaders probably killed more Christians than Muslims and Jews, since the Muslim conquerors would force the local Christian population to fight on their side.
The Christians, at least during the 3rd crusade fought because they knew the crusaders would murder them despite being Christian. King Richard ‘the lion heart’ had entire towns brutally murdered for mere convenience. Christians looked to Saladin since he was their refuge from the europeans and when he sacked cities didnt banish or commit genocide. Saladin ended up losing his support in the end because he limited his army from pillaging.
The punisher is a murdering lawless maniac but I don’t think he’s a fascist, is he?
How fascist he is depends on who is writing him. His symbol is literally a stylized Nazi totenkopf, and while he has never voiced support for totalitarian leaders, his solution to crime - escalating the violence - is consistent with fascist ideology.
Stretch? Gerry Conway, the original author, planned the character to use the totenkopf, and the artist re-worked the symbol.
Punisher 2099 was fascist (Wouldn’t kill cops, and became part of Doom 2099’s regime when he took over America.) but Frank Castle Punisher (A.k.a. the one we know.)? Pretty much equal opportunity murderer of criminals and baddies.
I don’t think that makes him fascist, just a broken person with twisted morals attempting to do good (in his mind). IIRC, he makes no attempt to push his morals beyond himself.
In fact, doesn’t he specifically tell people not to be like him?? That’s very much NOT fascie behavior.
Idk, a lot of fascist ideology revolves around a single person being able to save society via strength and commitment. Instead of society being able to enact meaningful changes through the proper means, we need someone who can cut through the bureaucracy and just take out the “bad guys”.
Unfortunately a lot of western writing reinforces the belief that individual greatness can overcome even the most difficult situations. This isn’t saying that all western authors are fascist, rather that most of the stories we tell require a first person perspective for us to resonate with it.
This is why the most popular propaganda films in Nazi Germany weren’t films like triumph of the will, but instead were films like The Lives of a Bengal Lancer and Gabriel Over the Whitehouse.
A fascist is someone who supports a single strong leader with total control of the nation. ‘Dictator’ was an actual position in the Roman Republic; the people could vote to give one man absolute power for a period of time. Makes sense if you’re dealing with a natural disaster or invasion and don’t have time to go through the usual channels. Fascism became popular in the chaos of the post WW1 era. Things were changing rapidly, and conservatives wanted to rein in the ‘undesirables.’ Ironically, the Communist Russian Revolution was a huge spur to the creation of numerous fascist parties across Europe.
Frank Castle, the Punisher, is not a fascist. He isn’t interested in taking power for himself, and doesn’t want a dictator. He often speaks of having the greatest respect for Captain America, the guy who always chooses the side of liberty and fair play. Frank knows that he’s a criminal and a murderer. He just doesn’t care. IMHO if he and the Joker were both locked up and unable to kill each other, the two would get along fine.
Even captain america does plenty of fascist things mate, Punisher is definitely very close to fascism by the mere fact that he represents someone who thinks they are above the law and they know better and that they can deliver their version of justice.
Of course that alone doesn’t make him fascist, but the things superheroes are portrayed doing nowadays are very much things fascists like.
Id recommend checking out this excellent video from Folding Ideas for example
Conversation? He’s not Batman. Frank Castle would straight up annihilate Joker.
The Batman Punisher crossover has what you’re looking for. Bats stops Frank from ventilating Joker’s forehead.
I want Mark Hamill Joker and Brad Garrett as Frank. BTW I’ve see Brad in person, and he’s a giant. Would have been perfect for Jack Reacher, instead of the pretty boy they used.
I do remember this one future one-off comic where he killed a bunch of rich pricks and politicians who even had a small repopulation program going, because they were the ones responsible for armageddon.
Rather than let them live and continue humanity, he killed them all for the crime of destroying it. Then he walked into the fire, ending his own life.
I’m not a big comic guy but I thought then and now that that was the perfect punisher story.
He did the only thing he knew how to do, to kill. a thing that definitely helped no one except for himself, then with no one else to punish he burned literally in the fire he was consumed with all his life.
Red Skull, Dr. Doom, and Hatemonger II, though the first two weren’t mainline continuity.
I haven’t actually read any Punisher, but it sounded more plausible than The Punisher being fascist
If fascists could read they’d be very upset
