I’m not here to claim that Tiktok is completely harmless, or that it’s even a good site. I’m sure they absolutely do collect as much personal information as they can, and I’m sure they give it to the Chinese government whenever they ask. But I don’t understand how Meta and Facebook are meant to be any better? There’s always a lot of hoo-haa going on with politicians promising to ban tiktok, and (at least back on Reddit) everybody’s vowing they will never use tiktok because it’s such a privacy invasive site. Yet I never see anybody going up against Facebook, at least the average person, but they collect just as much personal info and I’m sure hand it over whenever any government agency in the US asks them to
It kind of feels to me like this is some sort of country thing. China is bad, so they shouldn’t have your personal info. But the US is the last bastion of free speech and privacy, so their companies would NEVER dare to invade your privacy, and their government would never abuse their power to get people’s personal info
I’m aware Lemmy probably isn’t the best place to ask since most people here seem to be deep into open source software and often privacy focused (so I suppose wouldn’t use either) but this also feels like the only place on the internet I might actually get an answer that isn’t just “TIKTOK BAD”. If you refuse to use tiktok but are ok with Facebook - why?
China. Also, no one is saying FB is fine, but since it’s American then gov pretty much shrugs. It was FB after all feeding the NSA yeah?
Not so much saying it, but I personally know several people who’ll argue that Tiktok is a privacy invading god awful website that should be banned then 5 minutes later proceed to doomscroll Facebook
I tolerate Facebook on my network, but tiktok is an absolute no for me, null routed.
That’s entirely anecdotal, and confirmation bias to boot. How many people do you know that use neither? I’ll bet it’s sizable.
Yeah, there are some that don’t use TikTok but use Facebook, but that’s not evidence of a trend. Especially when Facebook has legitimate uses that you can’t easily replace with the other platforms
You’re not wrong, it indeed is anecdotal, but I’m not a data analyst, and I’m not going to run a global survey asking anybody who’ll answer whether they use one but not the other. All I can go on is what I’ve seen, and among my friends who use Facebook (most of them), I’d say 70% or so either believe, or act like they believe Facebook is less of a data theft machine than tiktok
Not sure what else you want me to say
There’s a non-zero chance that China would sometime want to use Americans’ data against them. All Facebook cares about is selling it to marketers and the US government.
Tiktok is considered worse because it’s involvement with a foreign government.
Sure but this seems to be a thing in many countries, not just the US. I live in Australia, so both of them are involved with “foreign” governments. In fact, most of the social media people here use is owned by foreign companies
I’m in Asia. I can’t speak for everyone but the people I know distrust the CCP much more than the US government. Sure, the US is far from blameless, but at least over here the CCP has a much worse reputation. I guess that’s one factor.
Another is more than a few people seem to think Meta is strictly a private company while tiktok is somehow being used/controlled by the Chinese government.
For the purposes of data collection, the US basically isn’t foreign for AU: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes
Personally, I think they’re all bad. the US is not nearly as bad as the CCP is, in regards to privacy and what they do with personal information. (the US might wish it had china’s capability, though.) the CCP uses digital information to the extent of having an AI that watches everything you do- including CCTV recordings and everywhere you physically go; tracking what doors you use, in a broad surveillance campaign. (frequently, Uyghur Muslims are targets,).
They also have agents show up to live with you- if they think you’re particularly… whatever…
China also uses the intel gleaned on TikTok to target people of interest; etc, and you’re an idiot if you think TikTok’s data it gleans on you doesn’t go straight to the CCP. It also gets alot more information than you think- including other devices on your network, etc.
All that said; Meta/Facebook, twitter. Whoever. They’re all selling their data to the CCP, too. and to the US. And to everyone else.
if you care about your data, the only real choice you have is to not use those services. at all.
You’re a bigger idiot if you think US is not nearly as bad as the CCP. People actively avoid anything that’s closely connected to CCP. Chinese products are considered poorly built by default and appsconsidered malware and all the propaganda around makes anyone cautious of getting a “Chinese” phone or anything. US has been caught numerous times with backdoors and NDA contracts with the social media networks.
Most people can avoid chinese tech companies and products by just looking at their brand names, US tech companies? not so much. Smartphones wouldn’t work properly without connecting to Apple or Google networks. Android users can install ROMs but Apple is just damn useless for privacy (unless you swallow their blue pills wholesale).
Just because China is open about their surveillance network doesn’t mean other countries aren’t. Anytime US companies are found to be spying, it’s “corporate shit” and “greed”, or some numbnut would say “capitalism”, but things like Government having a closed backdoor to everything, no one fucking bats an eye. Ever. and is swept under the rug. Double standards much?
Your arguments are just talking points you’re fed that make you feel better about yourself. Fuck China and fuck USA. US has been fucking medling with countries worldwide with their surveillance and shaping narratives with social media companies to benefit itself. Going as far as to perpetuate genocide and violence among people, you guys fucking deserve Tiktok.
the US actively censors literally everything it’s citizens see? (1, 2, 3, 4,)
The US dissappears it’s own citizens if they rock the boat too much? (1, 2, 3)
Your arguments are just talking points you’re fed that make you feel better about yourself. Fuck China and fuck USA. US has been fucking meddling with countries worldwide with their surveillance and shaping narratives with social media companies to benefit itself. Going as far as to perpetuate genocide and violence among people, you guys fucking deserve Tiktok.
It’s hilarious that I more or less acknowledged that the US is also spying on it’s citizens. The distinction is what the US then does about it. It doesn’t make random kids dissappear because they likened Xi to Winnie the Poo. It doesn’t make kids dissappear for criticizing the CCP, or even calling it’s sitting president a mass murderer.
As for meddling in other people’s business. Well, hate to break it to you, the only people not doing that wish they had the capability to do that. And you’re kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Same goes with global surveillance. Same goes with meddling, too.
Welcome to the modern world, where there are no heroes. hope Xi remembers to pay you this week. I wouldn’t be too loud if he forgets, though.
Real quick --> these discussions tend to spiral off into bad faith arguments and whataboutism, I’m going to try and avoid that
I think there are a few things that come to mind for me, and I apologize for this being very disorganized
- Both are bad and privacy invading, I avoid both as much as possible
- facebook where I am (and likely through north america) is more embedded in how we communicate. Both individually, and with companies/institutions. This isn’t a good thing, but it’s what has happened.
- I don’t post much or at all on either, and I use the web browser when possible. Unfortunately, I’m forced to use facebook stuff more than I am forced to use tiktok (which I don’t think happens at all)
- Because TikTok is newer, it’s also easier to restrict it. I think if Facebook tried to enter today, we’d push it away much harder
- Is one actually worse? Maybe, but I’ll defer to people that know more. I think on the app level, TikTok collected more data (and types of data) than the apps for Facebook products.
For me, it’s less about who is getting the data than what data is collected. Especially because once the data is collected, it won’t necessarily stay with the one entity. I wouldn’t be surprised if both Facebook and TikTok benefit from the data that the other one collects, making that point somewhat moot
these discussions tend to spiral off into bad faith arguments and whataboutism
Yeah, that’s a large part of the reason I haven’t asked before. But I’m asking in good faith, and I hope I’ll receive answers made in good faith
Both are bad and privacy invading
This is my sentiment too, and why I get annoyed when people claim one is worse than the other
Because TikTok is newer, it’s also easier to restrict it. I think if Facebook tried to enter today, we’d push it away much harder
This is a really good point - thank you!
facebook where I am (and likely through north america) is more embedded in how we communicate
This is where I’m at with it. Tiktok (and Instagram) are only about entertainment via content streams. There not meant to be 2-way or group communication platforms. Facebook, despite its best efforts, is still a communication platform. It’s useful for local info and hobby info. Obviously pictures of cool projects get pushed to the top due to react engagement, but there’s knowledgeable people keeping those groups useful.
Same as why reddit is still alive and well, despite the mini migration that brought me here. My hobby interaction was more than halved when I left. Classic forums are still dilapidated
to boil it down; “only our government gets to spy on us”
