So you mean they want windows to have something that Linux has had for 20 years? Android has also had this since ~2017 too.
My android phone and Linux computers all still want reboots after updates…
but in that case you can often kexec to restart linux faster, skipping the actual BIOS/UEFI boot.
also, some distros offer live patching of kernel code for $$$
Technically, but it’s safer to reboot nonetheless: https://fedoramagazine.org/offline-updates-and-fedora-35/
"Colonel updates require a reboot, but just normal application updates do not. And most system updates do not. I partly misspoke about Android. I should have been more clear because I was referring to the A/B partition scheme, but yeah, to run the new system does require rebooting.
I love linux and been using it for decades, personally and professionally, but no, linux doesn’t have “hot patching” the same way as that article describes it. At most it can live patch the kernel (and only few distros actually use that), but definitely not for the last 20 years, and definitely not running processes. However, it does usually restart background processes after an update without requiring a reboot, but in my experience, often times the system becomes unstable after several such updates and rebooting is effectively necessary (though not forced, and that’s why I like it).
Yeah, the security in knowing that if you’re way top busy right now, you don’t have to install or even download any updates. And you don’t have to worry your system will suddenly become crashy, glitchy, and unstable because it decided on its own to install some things and let you know you can reboot whenever.
It’s so freaking annoying I have to use Windows at work. It takes liberty to do what it wants and then my workflow gets hosed.
I get that there is security, but if you force updates, I should have some kind of notice or “hey, we need to install mandatory updates. You can schedule in the next 24 hours when or you can get them over with”
For the home user, this is a giant PITA for which I wholly blame MS.
For business machines, I lump the company IT in with MS, because there are Policies for this stuff they should be managing.
I say this as an IT person responsible for things like this. The first rule is don’t fuck with user machines during business hours, the second is to allow them to postpone stuff as needed.
Can only imagine getting an update, then a reboot, while I’m on an outage call trying to get a critical system back up. And hoping my laptop comes back up and my VPN still works.
Current versions of windows literally let you set an update reboot window. So set up the times you use it, and then forget about it and let it install whenever it wants.
I honestly, and sincerely, do not understand all the hate Windows gets with current updates. The alternative at the moment is “hope the user remembers to update” which we have seen in action and which does not work.
Is it annoying when you don’t set things up properly? Sure! But that’s a failing on the users side.
I’ve been using Windows for decades, and the last time I had it unexpectedly reboot for an update was years ago. Because I’ve actually taken the 10 minutes to understand the system, and how to configure it to do what I want.
Windows doesn’t force you to do anything. You can reboot or not reboot, or skip updates altogether.
Windows lets you pause updates for some time, maybe a week or so, after that you’re going to take them whether you like it or not. Granted, you had a week or so to prepare, so it’s ok to some extent, but don’t tell me Windows doesn’t force you…
you still need to reboot your linux machine or relogin if you updated a process that’s currently running (and in most cases most system processes can’t be just restarted) (…and otherwise you’ll just stay at the old version bit with new data which might cause some instability)
yes, there’s kernel hot-patching but it only affects the kernel, only viable for minor and security upgrades, does not come pre-configured on most consumer distros and not really suitable for home use.
And you’re saying, you expect Microsoft to come up with something better?
Linux has this
Cool, so its possible then! I hope Microsoft makes it functional for Windows, too.
It comes in 3 forms.
- Update small system components (packages) and load the old into ram until rebooting; I don’t think this is possible on windows.
- A/B Image Based Updating; Android and a few Linux distros have this; probably one of the most stable methods.
- Live boot updates/Kernel-space Hot Patching; found mostly in Linux servers, and distros with a patched kernel; used mostly for security updates which is what windows is doing here, but Linux can do feature updates this way too.
How many people are actually using kexec to update Linux without rebooting?
Windows is very lazy about reboots. Minesweeper changed? Better reboot.
Chrome also got infected with this laziness. It used to be that you had to restart chrome once a month, now it’s almost every day. Among many other reasons, that’s why I’m happy to be using Firefox again.
What’s Linux? This is the first in hearing of this here on Lemmy.
Can you provide me with an .exe of it?
I remember some years ago there was a “malware” going around that would flash OpenWRT onto people’s routers, and set them to have more secure default settings.
There should be another thing like that, but one that upgrades Windows into a Linux distro.
That is absolutely hilarious. Good guy malware swooping in and fixing people’s shit? Any chance you have a link?
Gemini claims it doesn’t exist when I prompted it for finding more info, so for the sake of testing out Gemini’s capability of searching I’m doubly interested if this exists.
Why would you send an image to gemini instead of just text? Annoy Google?
Oh cool, I guess I don’t need to play all my favorite games… Most is just as good right?
You Linux Uber fans are too much sometimes.
Sometimes people just don’t think about that people can have different wants and needs.
All, literally every game I want to play runs great in Linux, and my hobbies of self hosting, development, homelabbing, and data hoarding are all leagues better on it.
That doesn’t make a good choice for my friend that only logs on to play destiny 2. It also doesn’t matter why, to my friend, its a bad choice. It could be the devs are chained and lashed by Microsoft for even mentioning Linux in the office, but what matters to someonethatt only wants to play that game with friends is whether it works.
Yeah Linux is fun, until it breaks a week or two later. I’ll stick with windows, because it never breaks.
Windows never breaks? Uhhhhh, that’s definitely not true. When I have to use Windows, I brace myself every time I have to update.
When did you last use windows, lol? Windows is pretty damn stable nowadays. I don’t think an update has ever broken my windows 10 install that is still going from 2016.
It’s been about four years since windows broke on me enough to do a reinstall. Linux lasts a month with me being gentle.
It’s a no brainer.
Oh really, I think you and my Debian server with >10 years of uptime should have a conversation.
Been running Arch on my work laptop for over a year. Still waiting for the fabled difficulty and update breaks. Starting to think in modern times its perpetuated to keep people on Windows.
Must be nice. It’s been about seven years since I last dove into Linux, so maybe things have changed. But also in that time, windows became even more stable than it was, and it’s silky smooth these days.
I don’t see any benefits to even trying Linux again.
Linux breaking depends on mostly 2 thing:
-
The user. Depending on what they try to do, it can easily break Linux. (looking at me somehow breaking KDE Plasma and somehow fixing it without understanding how it broke or how I fixed it)
-
Updating (from what I understand, mostly a big issue on rolling release distros like Arch or Manjaro). Bleeding edge software with major bugs the stable release don’t get can always cause instability.
Though, I will say, that I’ve never had win10 crash on me unless I have too much stuff open or am being an absolute idiot. Windows always seems to be stable, at least I’ve never had issues for a long time.
Let’s be honest though. I’m a big fan of Linux/Unix systems, but if (not saying that’s necessarily the case) a normal user can break their installation by being a normal user, it’s not suited for normal users.
Windows is a pain in the ass imo, but pretty hard for a normal user to break in my experience.
Even if Windows does this, trust me, if you have any Razer products, Razer will fill in the gaps for them.
That shit restarts my Windows machine nearly every fucking day.
I love that the Razer installer pops up during windows intital setup. Seriously, chill out Razer, I don’t want to sign in to you while I’m bypassing the Microsoft forced sign in.
This is an odd comment. I use a Razer keyboard and mouse and I’ve never experienced this. What products are you using?
Edit: Thi said, I HATE how Razer and Nvidia make you sign in to update things. Like, REALLY hate that. They even force two factor on us. Like… Why the fuck do I care about account security for either of those?
You can update Razer by signing in as Guest and not actually logging in. I think it is the same with Nvidia. They just eant you to think you need to log in.
I didn’t looking it that much, but while “continue as guest” is a prominent option in Razer Synapse, I was unable to get GeForce Experience to let me install updates without signing in.
It’s whatever though, you can install and update to relatively recent Nvidia drivers with the CUDA winget package. Now that I think about it, around 95% of my Windows software is installed through winget these days. I’m a big fan.
Had a movie stop playing the other week (I use my PC as a Jellyfin server and watch on a Nvidia Shield in another room). I thought something had crashed, but when I went upstairs to check, it had realised nobody was watching it and fucking rebooted.
you should probably use a different operating system if you use it as a server
It’s really not a good idea to have a home server you don’t update, assuming it’s accessible outside your network.
Windows updates suck, but they can be delayed to only take place every 6-8 weeks.
Living room PC is also used for playing VR games (since living room has the space required). Sadly Windows is the only option.
Pure curiosity, I don’t own VR gear, does the Linux steam version not have VR?
