Yes, I made it using a laptop’s trackpad, how could you tell?
[Image description: Panel 1: Young man confidently walking, his vest bears the Wayland logo. Behind him is a grunt with the Gnome logo on his face holding a katana. The young man says: “It’s high time you retire, old man!” Panel 2: An old man with a long beard and the Xorg logo on his chest is sitting on a throne and petting a rat, the XFCE mascot. He says: “It’s still a hundred years too early for you to defeat me!” ]
Wayland gets so many more of the basics so much better than X11 it’s not even funny anymore. X11 is stuttery, unsecure, unmaintaned, can’t really be updated for new features that are pretty important in 2024 (VRR, HDR). For now with my usage, the only big disadvantage I saw from Wayland is that you can’t restart it like X11 when something goes wrong, but that’s the thing, I haven’t had to restart it like I had to often with X11. Even on Nvidia Wayland is better now, except maybe for gaming but that’s Nvidia for you.
X11 is stuttery
Not for me
unsecure
Source?
unmaintaned
Received a number of commits just last week: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg
can’t really be updated for new features that are pretty important in 2024 (VRR, HDR).
VRR is supported, at least on AMD: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Variable_refresh_rate
For HDR you have a point, afaik.
Wayland gets so many more of the basics so much better than X11 it’s not even funny anymore.
And yet X11 works rock solid for me, while Wayland still crashes whenever I so much as look at it wrong. The amount of time and work I’ve lost because of Wayland crapping out on me isn’t even funny anymore. On AMD by the way, so no blaming Nvidia’s crappy Linux support.
Wayland will probably be the better product one day, but this day is not that day, at least not for every use-case. Great that it works fantastically for you, I genuinely advise you to keep using it, but keep in mind that ‘mileage may vary’ from person to person. Personally for now I’ll stick to X11, as I need to get work done and unfortunately don’t have time to muck around with Wayland’s antics.
X11 is insecure. Any program can read any keystroke, any windows contents, can input anything anywhere etc.
The concept of separate apps basically doesnt exist.
Those security features are misleading.
A second app can already read all of your files, modify the first app, modify $PATH to replace your display server and do anything it wants as your user. Running wayland instead of Xorg provides no tangible benefits in security.
Not for me
Source?
The Xorg devs have literally stated as much themselves.
Received a number of commits just last week: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg
The vast majority of those commits are literally because of Xwayland.
VRR is supported, at least on AMD: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Variable_refresh_rate
Barely, it has numerous issues. The Wayland VRR implementations address much of those issues.
For HDR you have a point, afaik.
HDR literally can’t be added to Xorg without rewriting the entire stack. They’ve been trying to get HDR working for something like around 10yrs before they gave up completely.
Wayland on the other hand has been designed from the ground up to be completely expandable, directly addressing the largest problem with Xorg, maintainability.
…at least not for every use-case… …‘mileage may vary’ from person to person…
Yes, that’s true. What would reduce edge cases however, is if you reported those bugs.
Wayland will probably be the better product one day…
That day is coming sooner then later.
Personally for now I’ll stick to X11…
That’s fine, however you should switch as soon as it becomes viable to do so.
You absolutely can restart Wayland. The command to do so is just specific to whichever DE or WM you’re using as they have their own Wayland Compositor implementation.
DEs should implement good commands for that
- start session from tty (example
startplasma-wayland) - logout (example
qdbus org.kde.ksmserver /KSMServer logout 0 3 3) - restart wayland server (example
kwin_wayland --replace)
Some of those are completely undiscoverable
10% FPS drop compared to X11 because of perfect frame requirements
X11 has literally never stuttered even on the hack that is WSL
The only time I have actually gotten X11 to crash was an unrelated kernel panic.
Also no one uses X11 networking by default lmao, its always X forward over SSH, that is definitely secure and still something wayland can’t do.
It’s still buttry smooth, you just have to downgrade back to x11 when the Nvidia drivers shit in there hands and claps.
Also no one uses X11 networking by default lmao, its always X forward over SSH, that is definitely secure and still something wayland can’t do.
Sure it can, with waypipe (like, for a while now…)
Just waypipe ssh <host> [command]
You can even run X apps over this through cage even when X11 forwarding is disabled by the host (because, you know, the security issues…)
Today, X is like the horse and buggy proponents, claiming the car isn’t feasible cause you can’t get gasoline in every town.
It’s the same argument. Getting a reasonable amount of charging is possible in 15 minutes. But not everyone has immediate access to fast charging stations. If everyone could always make a deliberate decision whether to go easy on the battery and save money or having to be places, EVs may look much more appealing to a lot of people.
They come infestated with proprietary software making them more of a tech product than a mode of transportation which leads to fear on their repairability as well as whether or not you’ll own the damn thing after you spend a quarter million years paying it off
Honestly it will never die but it will be a terrible idea to use it. I wouldn’t be surprised if all of the major software drops support eventually
Chad X11
Very true. Like I would love it if something worked as solidly as X but Wayland has had like 15 years to get it’s shit together and it’s still not there. There are plenty of people for who it does work too but 2 out of the 3 computers I use regularly have issues with Wayland.
I have 4 computers, all run Wayland, none have issue. If you have some nVidia or otherwise exotic Hw you may have issues, but Wayland is already very mature for regular use.
On my old laptop with a dedicated Nvidia card and integrated AMD Wayland works as long as you only use integrated graphics otherwise crashes are common.
On my new laptop with both integrated and dedicated AMD graphics it works without issue.
On my desktop with a 5800x3d and 7900XT it’s usable but on Wayland hardware acceleration of video just does not work for some reason. About half of more demanding games have a very noticeable stutter and there is a full system freeze every week or so. With X those issues aren’t present on that machine.
As I said: Works for some people but not for others.
