In the past week and a half, I’ve noticed Reddit behaviors starting to try and poison all of the places that people are taking refuge in to get away from the toxicity, myself included. They’ve started to DDoS Lemmy for a while, which is a Reddit thing to do and what they’re notorious of doing whenever they feel they don’t like something.
And now they’ve been trickling in numbers, these incredibly toxic users that behave as they would on Reddit. The reckless shitposting, derailing open civil discussions with unfunny and irrelevant jokes. The downvote brigading and banding together to get you banned. This exact thing has happened to me on Lemmy, that I had to leave because the toxicity was gradually building.
We should reject Reddit toxicity in general, tell them they don’t have a place here or anywhere. They know where they can dump their shit in, but they feel that because they’ve made mountains of it, that they’ve got to come over to other places and do it all over again.
I left Reddit because the toxicity levels have gotten unbearable. I really am yearning for a place where I can talk in and not be antagonized. I’m sure others are too.
you should get over yourself, and not worry about calling other people names
Where and who am I calling names to? What’s this preemptive judgment of yours? See, you’re behaving exactly similar to the behaviors I’ve talked about.
Maybe it’s you that should get over yourself, you know, heed your own advice. The internet deserves to be a place to interact without the likes of you. infesting it. You just don’t like that idea and feel you’ve got to be the center of some attention somewhere.
your entire post is instructions for calling people names, you drama queen… with all the yearning and what not…
They didn’t call anyone any names. You are taking this post very personally, do you feel personally attacked by it?
your entire post is instructions for calling people names, you drama queen… with all the yearning and what not…
Could you please quote where the OP had these instructions?
Are you the same person as this guy? You seem to keep making new accounts and posts to hide your post history and complain about redditors.
I certainly can’t know whether what you’ve experienced is actually toxicity or just criticism, as I can’t see your post history. But any site with sufficient mass will be flooded with people like this. All the way back to 1993.
Part of being online anywhere with open signups and free discussion is just dealing with that sort of thing. The only way to prevent it is to spin up your own defederate instance and only allow people to join who you deem worthy of conversation with.
Oh nice, stalkers. Cool, said no one.
And no I disagree, the only way to prevent toxicity is for a moderation team to give a damn and maybe for the toxic users to realize that they won’t be tolerated. I’ve never understood this stance where the “best” way to deal with something is to just find your own gathering. I don’t have a following and I don’t want to develop some following so I feel like I can talk. Everyone should have the privilege to talk where they want without the pressure of being antagonized.
The problem isn’t the other people. The problem is the individuals who get confrontational and pose problematic behaviors. Not the other way around.
If you keep trying to change human nature you’re going to be disappointed.
Complaining that other people do not live up to your standards is tiresome.
Easier to go where you are comfortable than to insist others change their behavior.
Who says I’m trying to change the entirety of human behavior?
What standards?
I’ve been hopping an awful lot from platform to platform at this point, trying to find this “comfort”. You and other people have been encouraging this idea of isolation which isn’t healthy on the human mind, just so you know, so you’re coming off as blatantly unhelpful.
Changing people’s behaviors isn’t my goal, infact, I am having difficulty finding this invented problem you’ve made about changing people’s behaviors. When, all I’ve said up and down, that I’ve noted of said behaviors and that I advocate we should not welcome it. Where are you getting this concept, besides inventing it, that it is about changing behavior? You can’t change an asshole’s behavior, they’re going to be assholes regardless. All I’m saying is to reject it and make them unwelcome because they have no place in ecosystems where we’re all trying to collectively be contributing and civil whereas, they’re not.
If you want to take up the time burden of moderating large communities for free you can contribute to the solution but it is a lot of work with no compensation, so there is a valid reason that throwing more moderation at the problem is much easier said than done
I’m probably some of the few people who’ll actually be glad to be moderating large communities. The problem is that, people wouldn’t like how I handle things because god forbid I actually move and act to resolve problems. Than letting it sit there and just remain untouched like I see so other instances of moderation do.
You must have a very distinctive description in how you define what stalking is. I’m going by the universally agreed definition of what stalking is. This is, on all accounts, stalking and they knew that.
I can’t quite care. Because, I know very well that I’m not the one who threw the first stone in the first place. But everyone still hasn’t grown up past the phase in their childhood where they can’t take accountability for their actions, so it MUST be the person they’re scapegoating because that person is addressing the shit they refuse to owe up to. It’s very childish and I’m ashamed to know so many self-acclaimed “sophisticated adults” behave like children, still.
You’re making it sound like I’m running for some office, which isn’t the case. Might want to tune down the dramatizing tone a bit.
The problem isn’t the other people. The problem is the individuals who get confrontational and pose problematic behaviors. Not the other way around.
No one else has been confrontational in this discussion except you.
You are using Kbin, which means you can block not just magazines/communities, but instances, and individual users.
I imagine increased moderation will come in time, to some communities on some instances, but frankly one of the benefits of the Fediverse is the control it gives you over who can and cannot make it into your feed. This is a lot of foot stomping about something you can largely control yourself.
I’ve never understood this stance where the “best” way to deal with something is to just find your own gathering
What would your alternative be? Are you one of those types of people that want to censor people you disagree with? If someone says something that hurts your fee-fees, fucking ignore them. Really easy to do.
I think maybe you are on the wrong instances. Find some better people or start your own community. And we are Lemmings not Redditors anymore.
No, I’m not going to be told that I’m on the “wrong side” of anything just because intolerant people inhabit where I’d like to interact with. Why is it so hard for people like you to ignore others?
Kbinaut here. I’m still wondering if Kbinite or Kbinaut will win out lol.
Meanwhile poor OP is apparently being haunted by the shadows of redditors calling him out for toxicity on two different websites lol.
If it smells like shit everywhere you go…
Kbinaut here. I’m still wondering if Kbinite or Kbinaut will win out lol.
Kbean.
I actually agree with OP. Maybe DDOS-wise it’s very instance-specific but in terms of toxicity, it’s very apparent across federated content. I mean, there are some pretty bad behaviors on lemmy.world communities already.
One option is everyone starts calling out assholes for their behavior and otherwise not engaging. It probably won’t change their behavior but it’ll at least annoy some enough they they’ll leave.
Kbin and Lemmy are better built than Reddit in several ways to handle those behaviours to a certain point:
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Karma: it’s hidden on Kbin, and I can’t find it on Lemmy. So, there is no pressure to post or comment something. Do you know that feeling on Reddit when you have 500 karma, you write a comment, and later you have 480 karma? That’s what I’m talking about.
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Instances with their own rules: every instance has its own administrator(s), and they can set different rules for them and apply them. Some are more tolerant than others, so in the end,your experience depends on what instance your account is. Besides, some instances don’t have downvotes, so that’s a big plus too.
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People: we all, or the most of us, know how situation was on Reddit, how we struggled to make our experience be positive, with no success. Because we know that, we don’t want that situation to replicate on these places. It’s difficult sometimes, but we do what we can.
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Defederation: as someone said here, if situation inside an instance is too hard to tackle, to the point that those bad entities harass users on other instances, then defederation is key, until the situation comes back to normal.
And there are other things, like algorithm (or lack of), code open sourced to fork if you wish, etc.
You can block users. I use the Memmy mobile app and just click on the user name and then the three dot menu on the upper right.
Blocking entire instances still seems to be bugged, in my experience. I’ve blocked a handful of German-language instances because I speak 0 German, but still see posts from those instances every now and then.
I really don’t see the purpose of karma and why places like Lemmy and Kbin feel that they have to implement. Karma isn’t my concern, it has only been my concern when it comes to Reddit because they tie karma directly to your account to where it affects how much you post and where. If that doesn’t happen at all in either Lemmy or Kbin - why have it at all?
Quite frankly, karma systems across all walks of all social media platforms is it’s own disease. Even if it serves no purpose, it has a hold on many people to think and act in reflection to how much karma they’ve accumulated. I’ve noticed the more karma someone has, the more narcissistic they become, the more that they feel they’ve above someone and feeling untouchable. Why, because their count outnumbers yours. People with low karma count don’t really care, because unless you’re on Reddit, no affects. However that routes back to my earlier point.
I can talk about a similar (karma-like) system on another site. It was a wiki-style site popular from 2006-2010.
Their original system counted a user’s creations and edits. There was the expected amount of drama around who had more creations vs edits. Creators tended to add a lot of high volume but low effort crap. Editors would get a lot of grief over ‘stealing’ entries because the idiots who created the site put the username of the last editor at the bottom of the entry.
It got worse.
Around 2008 the idiots reimagined the site and expanded the scope. They kept the shitty idea of keeping the last editor’s username, but they added a points system tied to how many new features were added. For example: if you added a town you were awarded 1 point, but if you added a street or river you were awarded 1 point for each kilometer of road or river. Shit got real weird.
It was a race towards crap. AngrySteve59 was no longer at the top of the list. He was replaced by GamerJoe84 who had racked up shit points using the new system.
Points just seem to make people crazy. “Rate me! Evaluate my work” - Lisa Simpson
Karma: it’s hidden on Kbin, and I can’t find it on Lemmy. So, there is no pressure to post or comment something. Do you know that feeling on Reddit when you have 500 karma, you write a comment, and later you have 480 karma? That’s what I’m talking about.
Eh?
You have 3140 karma (“reputation”). It’s not hidden.
OP goes
I left Reddit because the toxicity levels have gotten unbearable.
And then seriously goes around disagreevoting replies like this one. Can we say “part of the problem”? Can we not foster a community where every counterpoint is met with that small but constant hostility? Be the change you want to see, OP, and reserve that shit for straight-up unproductive comments.
I can block people on kbin, does lemmy not have that?
Of course, it’s more an “I don’t want to see this user” than “I don’t want this user to see me,” but it keeps you from ever engaging with people who prove themselves little bitches more than once at least.
This. The internet is just fucking toxic now. And wherever you go, we’ll… there you are.
Honestly? It has been for ages and ages.
In 1989 a grown-ass grad student at our flagship state university tried to get my 14 year old friend to visit him downstate. (She told me all of this via a handwritten letter, mind you, but she was communicating with this creep - who wouldn’t admit his actual age - via an early text only messaging system.)
I remember the 1990s as a weird free for all, but also very gate-keepery. Oh, and those chat rooms/IMs out of nowhere were just… not even a thin veneer of “normal people doing normal things.” (I’m OK with that, but let’s not pretend).
The 2005-2010 era was all about collaboration (wikis) and forums and LORD ALMIGHTY, that almost always ended as a shitshow. Highlights from my memories of one wiki mashup:
- One kid from Slovakia faked his own online death, came back a month later and held a memorial for himself under the guise of a real-life friend of the kid. No one was buying it, and he lost his shit over the lack of mourning. It was cringe, but people were pretty mean about it.
- Another kid from Louisiana (if you believed his bio he was 11 and lived in a trailer park) was attacked by two adult men for “trying to score contribution points” on the wiki… by adding valid information to the wiki.
-An unhinged person in the Philippines threatened me with death, violence, and the destruction of generations worth of my family. That threat was delivered with the added terror-inducing information that her husband was a “lecturer at the university.”
-One of the site admin’s/owners (a Russian dude who was the equivalent of Reddit’s Spez), banned a guy… this is so stupid and complex… mainly stupid… I feel stupid just typing this out. It was Russian Spez’s birthday and a few people on the forum wished him a happy birthday. (Myself included. I mean, have a nice b-day dude. Typing costs me nothing and maybe it’ll dislodge whatever’s up your butt.) Another guy on the forum (let’s call him Derf) called us birthday-wishers “suck asses.” Whatever. Anyway, Russian Spez freaked right the fuck out, banned Derf, and started whining in broken English about why it’s unfair that we “think it’s OK that people call him suck ass.” And although I’m generally a nice person, I took this opportunity to call Russian Spez a thin skinned moron. (Seriously - I’m a 30 something woman and I’m not pitching fits over a childish taunt, but you are? And it wasn’t even directed at you? To his credit, Russian Spez didn’t ban me.)
-Was creeped on like it’s 1989 once people on that forum realized I wasn’t a dude.
-There were internecine disputes over formatting, where people in the US banded together to create a local standard that made no sense globally, people in the EU banded together to make standards that made a little more sense globally but pissed everyone in the US off because they preferred to say “Kentucky” vs. “KY”, people in Finland created their own insular state of affairs and refused to enter a debate over site-wide standards, and everyone else around the world just glowered and waited it out.
-Then there were the geo-political warriors. There were people in Iran and Iraq who fought an online proxy war over whether the Persian Gulf should be called the Persian or the Arabian Gulf. There was some drama over the South China Sea that I never really delved into. A single man in the middle east made 200 sockpuppets to defend 20 meters worth of sand in the Sinai peninsula that defined the border between Egypt and I-forget-the-hell-who-but-it-wasn’t-even-Israel.
That got into HobbyDrama territory, but the point is: Shitshow. Always has been.
People just sort of suck. And when their natural impulses towards suckiness run up against site rules? Shit gets lost. When someone calls them out it becomes a personal grievance. The lawbreaker becomes the victim.
In the end, no one can have nice things.
