91 points

If the requirements are the same as for iPhones, this change is entirely inconsequential, because Apple can just add so many hurdles to sideloading to make this infeasible.

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47 points

Bored open source devs with a deep hatred for apple: “Challenge accepted”

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20 points

I remember hearing something about requiring a multi million dollar deposit or something that made it infeasible for all but the largest of tech companies.

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27 points

By all means. After Apple has painted themselves in a corner, when the legislation has been loophole proofed, that’s when Apple gets hit in the face with the Brussels effect - like a big, floppy, dong slapped across Steve Apple’s mouth in every country out there.

I’ll do a dance for every country. I’ll do a shimmy for Botswana, a conga for Japan, a shake for Sebia, etc, etc.

Slap! Other cheek. Slayap! Other cheek! And so on and so forth.

Hopefully.

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1 point

Loophole-proofing means doing a revision to the DMA, which means that they need to go through all of the stages again. It took three years on the first round, and they’re probably going to need a few more revisions to get all of the holes fixed.

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7 points

There is no loophole though.

Even if there was, the EU runs on civil law, not common law, which means the intent of the law trumps the wording, and there is no emphasis on precedents. So if an EU judge decides that Apple is fucking around trying to skirt the law, there is no change required to the law to slap them down.

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1 point

Such is writing policy. Mayhaps it needs to be reformed down the line as well.

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19 points

The EU said the Apple’s implementation isn’t complying. The rules are clear. Sideloading means sideloading.

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14 points

The current implementation is what Apple (or Apple’s lawyers) think complies with the EU, this doesn’t mean the EU will fully accept this iteration. Apple is probably mainly playing with time here.

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1 point

The problem is that fixing the loopholes most likely needs changes to the Act itself.

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7 points

There is no real loophole though. Apple latched on to some part of the Act to justify what they are doing and play for time, while pretending the rest of the Act does not exist. The Act says in no uncertain terms that Apple is not allowed to self-preference - meaning that the alternative app stores must have as much exposure and placement on their platform as their own.

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14 points

I don’t see why they wouldn’t be. iPadOS is still basically iOS Double Wide.

The rules will almost certainly be the iOS rules, but find and replace iOS for iPad.

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8 points

Some think that the EU won’t accept the terms that Apple set up for alternate marketplaces, but it’ll probably take a decade or more until the EU can get off its ass.

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19 points

If it took a decade, it would be the first time regarding these issues.

EU acted at a week’s notice last time Apple tried to pull shit about third party app stores.

They didn’t hesitate fining both Apple and Google 10% of their turnover in the past either.

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61 points
*

ITT: People who has no clue about EU law and honestly think Apple will get away with this.

They won’t and they never had in the past.

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18 points

'Mericans - “I demand freedom©®™ from government intervention”

Also 'Mericans - “Why is this giant corporation allowed to not use lube while fuckin me in the ass?!?”

EU - Slowly slips a thumb into corporation’s sphincter with untrimmed fingernail

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45 points

I feel proud, as I contacted the EU commission regarding this specific issue

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4 points

Genuinely, good work getting involved.

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2 points

The reply, for those interested:

Many thanks for your enquiries dated 29 January 2024 and 10 February 2024 and your interest in the Digital Markets Act (“DMA”).

Your questions concern the Commission’s decision of 5 September 2023 designating Apple Inc. (“Apple”) as a gatekeeper under the DMA (see here for the public version of the decision).

The Commission’s designation decision is based on the evidence available to the Commission and submissions made by Apple taking into account the legal framework under the DMA. Regarding your questions, we note the following:

The Commission designated Apple’s operating system iOS. The Commission considers that Apple has provided sufficient facts and arguments to hold that iOS and iPadOS constitute each a distinct operating system core platform service, with only iOS meeting the quantitative thresholds for designation. However, the Commission has opened a market investigation in the qualitative designation of iPadOS. This investigation is currently ongoing. Should the Commission qualitatively designate iPadOS, it would be subject to the same obligations under the DMA as iOS. 



The Commission designated Apple’s software application store App Store, which is currently offered on different Apple devices running on iOS, iPadOS, macOS, watchOS and tvOS as a single core platform service, irrespective of the device on which it is used. This is because, based on the evidence in the file, the App Store is used for the same common purpose from both an end user and a business user perspective across all devices on which it is available, namely to intermediate the distribution of apps.

We hope this answers your questions. For any further information, including on the upcoming compliance phase, please visit the Commission’s DMA website under https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/

Kind regards,

The DMA Team

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40 points

The EU is one of the few institutions that are fighting the American corporations on our most basic freedoms. It’s the only one with real teeth.

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38 points

Unless the EU makes Apple get rid of the yearly cost per installation, any app store other than Apple’s is limited by the inability to have free or freemium apps, giving them a substantial disadvantage in comparison.

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12 points

I think this would need new legislation that would push software regulations further than they’ve been before.

Apple can allow apps to be installed outside their app store. The fee they are charging is likely related to accessing their APIs and tools for developing iOS apps. Apple would have to be forced to make these free.

Currently you could considerably make an iOS app without apple’s tools and APIs. But it would require significant effort to develope/reverse engineer these tools to make the app. Effort that is outside of the scope of most modern app development.

To force apple to make the APIs and tools open would likely require additional legislation. Saying not only must the device allow third party distribution of apps, but apple must support these activities for free. This is significantly different from making apple allow third party apps. It puts on them a real cost (not potential loss like allowing third party app stores).

This isn’t a problem for other systems because they actively invite people to develop and distribute their software for their system. But it would have implications for game consoles. Sony, MS and Nintendo would have to allow any potential developer access to their tools for free with little obligation.

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4 points

Developers already pay a subscription fee.

Apple is just being greedy and tries to disincentivise developers from using third party stores. They are not incurring any cost associated with those downloads.

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1 point

They do incur the cost of the tools and APIs. They would argue they eat the loss to support their market place.

I would argue apple making their APIs and tools open for everyone is in their best interests. It’s easier to control security issues if everyone uses the same tools and apis. But apple won’t care as much.

If a third party app store provides a tool or service to improve their app store, should apple expect to be able to use that for free? Negating any benefit that third party would get for developing such an improvement.

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