I do, but like most other people, I’m preoccupied with short term crises since, well, I need to survive those in order to be ready for the long-term ones.
In my opinion though, we don’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell. The elite will manage to hang just a bit longer, but eventually they’ll cook and burn with the rest of us, or in their bunkers.
Anyways, shit’s already fucked to the point that I’ve given up. Just sit back, relax and take whatever life gives ya.
This is exactly the messaging of the oil companies and others who oppose climate action now that it’s too hard to deny. They want us to think it’s hopeless and give up trying to change anything. It’s not too late. Green energy is growing exponentially and has been possibly the fastest technological adoption in history. Millions of people are working on the science and technology to solve these problems. We just need some more collective action at the local and national levels. Carbon taxes, funding for green initiatives, local agriculture, and support for alternative transportation like e-bikes or other PEVs to start
Did you miss the memo that current AI is already using more power than everything we’ve managed to save with green energy in the last decade? We ARE fucked, the only thing we’re still debating is the exact timespan. Which is asinine, the result will remain the same either way.
The only way I see to a path to salvation is a huge pandemic or world war, becausing nothing else will convince people. We’ve been trying (and failing) for decades.
Carbon taxes fix the problem of using energy for dumb things. Climate change isn’t caused by us using energy, it’s caused by the fact that carbon pollution is free.
I need some anon to write me a virus that will wipe out all datacenters in one go, something that will irrevocably fry all enterprise hardware beyond repair. Let’s start over, with decent trust busting and without the plastic this time.
(edit: I guess it’s not entirely clear but I’m expecting such a virus to hit the reset button on civilisation. Mass death, yes, but we won’t fuck the world beyond being liveable.)
The only way I see to a path to salvation is a huge pandemic or world war, becausing nothing else will convince people
We had a pandemic already and war in Ukraine is raging on - and both only served right wing extremists to rise and ignore climate problems even harder. We are fucked. I don’t give up hope but it’s tiny
If the power is renewable, who cares how much it uses? Things are far from hopeless.
Did you miss the memo that current AI is already using more power than everything we’ve managed to save with green energy in the last decade?
You got a source on that? Cause that sounds fake
I never had kids of my own, because I didn’t want any, but the last 15 years or so I’ve becoming increasingly grateful that I made that decision. It at least allows me to sit back and contemplate doom without worrying about what my kids’ life on this planet is going to be like after I’m gone.
I’ve always done the reducing, reusing, and recycling, because it’s the right thing to do. Cut waaaaay back on dairy and beef purchases, I eat a lot of plant protein and use plant milk now. But it’s all a drop in the bucket. Only the governments can actually fix this, and they won’t because they are owned. I just sit around hoping it won’t get TOO bad before I’m dead.
The fiduciary responsibility scene from the new Fallout show hit hard.
S1E6
“Morton played a rancher who owned half of Missouri.”
“And what happens when the cattle ranchers have more power than the sheriff?”
“The whole town burns down.”
“Right, the whole town burns down. Vault-Tec is a trillion dollar company that owns half of everything. And after ten years of war, the U.S. gov’t is broker than a joke. The cattle ranchers are in charge, Coop.”
Humanity is just going to go through a culling. There will definitely be humans and there will definitely be habitable areas of the planet but there won’t be room for all 8 billion of us and depending on how much we actually do right now will determine how big the actual final number is
And honestly, would that be such a bad thing? 8 freaking billion of us is at least 7.5B too many.
People who say this imagine themselves and their families in the 0.5B but will end up in the 7.5B, suffering immeasurably in the process.
And you’ll be first in line to be a member of the 7.5B that gets culled, right?
Actually, no! Once the really BIG human die-offs start, the hyperwealthy will ‘bunker up’ for a while and once the population shrinks back down, we won’t be putting out all that greenhouse gas anymore, and the earth will cool back down. They’ll keep a few cities in places like Norway or what have you around to keep providing food and fuel for their choppers and parties.
I know several billionaires are already doing this in Hawaii. I feel like Hawaii is a bad choice. But I suppose if you have a giant yacht it’s not a problem.
But I feel like you’d want land with slaves under armed guard that till fields and raise livestock.
Drop everything
… and? Panic? Die?
The people who tweeted this suck at Communication 101. You’ve gotta have a specific and clear call to action. Something like “Join this protest at XYZ” or “Demand your Congressman support ABC.”
You can’t just say “Drop everything. Forget about your job and your kid’s education.” That’s not an effective message.
Unless their point is we’re past the point of protests and political policies doing anything and we’re all gonna die. In which case, say that. “Drop everything and go die, cause we’re fucked.” You gotta be clear!
I think part of the post is the implication that there is no more call to action, only a downward spiral that no action could solve.
If we take it at face value, it would seem the audience they are targeting would not care to participate in xyz and would not care to ask the congressman to vote abc, probably because those things are not in their own financial interest. But that’s not actually who this is targeting. It’s targeting the rest of us, who are already aware of those people. But we can’t do anything about it.
Now the body of one soul I adore wants to die
You have always told me you’d not live past 25
I say, stay long enough to repay all who caused strife
I mean, I get the desperation. But drop everything and…do what?
Calling for a massive strike is one thing. But just “drop everything” with no follow up is a weird reaction. It sounds way too much like, “drop everything and panic.” Not “sacrifice everything to try to save what we can of the livable world.”
either travel until your last penny or buy a house in a very very remote location and stockpile enough food for a year or two. Continuing your life as usual and recycling your tin cans is the definition of insanity.
If your bucket list is “travel the world” then sure. If your bucket list is “enjoy a lot of chill times with my friends and family” then I don’t really know what you expect to change.
I mean think of how many people know someone who died young and live with the very real knowledge that they could die at any moment, what do you expect them to change knowing that climate change might make life hard at some point in the next 2 - 100 years? Does that meaningfully change someone’s life when they already know that they could be killed in a car accident the next day?
Do you think preparing for collapse now in a remote location is really the sensible thing to do? I sometimes wonder myself how fast it will happen. I think the planet will be uninhabitable within 300 years and chaos will ensue within 30 but i’m not sure the chaos will be without warning unless we hit an environmental tipping point and there’s sudden major temperature change (like earth becoming 20 degrees warmer or cooler within a week), which could happen.
A house in a remote location is insanely naïve. Rambo isn’t real life, if you want a snowball’s chance in hell of making it in that kind of a scenario you need to have group support. When the sea people came you didn’t want to be in major metros on the coast, but you also didn’t want to the the guy alone who became the lonely corpse in the countryside. There’s a happy medium where you have the best chances of survival. This is just delusional apocalypse porn.
If you’re at all capable, purchase property up north. You can get acres of undeveloped land for a few thousand dollars. If you can, have an ongoing project to get some basic services set up on the land like a secure shed to cover a well and a solar kit. Get an RV or a van and just know that if shit falls apart you can drive out there and at least have water and power. Wireless or satellite internet would be a good idea.
The coming disasters are going to take a number of years to ramp up, it will probably happen slowly enough that people will almost literally be the toad boiling to death as the heat slowly rises. It could be a few years, it could be a few decades. Whatever happens, it will happen and it will get worse. We’re going to see the most drastic change to our world that anyone has ever seen and a lot of people are going to suffer and it’s going to happen at the same pace which we read about school shootings, annoyance and impatience.
Most of us won’t be able to afford land and even if we do move to cooler, less unstable areas, we still may have to deal with food shortages, economic crashes, and social instability. It’s not going to be like The Road, we’re not going into a sudden world of cannibals and post-apocalyptic fashion choices, it’s going to be a long slog through more and more discomfort, storms that don’t let up on coastal cities, political drama as people try to move or get federal help, refugees swamping places that can’t handle the numbers, authoritarians trying to seize power, crime and looting in the aftermath of storms, cities slowly becoming abandoned as the flood waters never get a chance to recede, as happened in some parts of New Orleans as long ago as Katrina.
You have time, but watching it still counts as part of “everything” so you are going to have to drop it.
Well, the only thing that could reasonably help us would be to demolish the 1% and the corrupt politicians who support them. And yes, that would include an armed uprising.
Not that that I see that happening unless it gets much worse. We still have (some) bread and games left to pacify the masses.
Yeah I’ve understood since high school, what the fuck do you want me to do about it when I can barely keep myself and my family alive as is?
This particular author wants you to panic.
We are certainly facing many environmental crisis, there’s no doubt about that… But the data here seems limited. I assume we simply don’t have measurements older than 50 years to add to this graph?
Edit: Here is a better graph!
Still alarming, but the data only goes back so far… It feels like something everyone needs to pay attention to and take seriously, but perhaps turning down the Vault-Tec guy knocking at your door is still a reasonable action to take.
Seems like the authors doomerism is working. Look at some of the assholes in the comments. It feels like they get off of the negativity.
Is shit bad? Yeah. But giving up helps no one and is a punch in the face to all the people that are fighting tooth and nail every single day.
That graph is 4 years out of date and still shows the same thing, if we don’t make radical changes, we’re fucked.
We’re fucked no matter what, but the degree of the fucking is in question still. 1.5 degrees is not great, 2.5 is really bad. 4 degrees is civilization-ending catastrophe.
And good news! We’ve probably averted 4 degrees through our actions over the last 20-40 years or so. Iirc we’re still on track for 2-3 degrees. We have more work to do.
Okay. I just want to slam on the brakes here, just a little… Just a little slam.
There’s a LOT of personal blame going around in these comments. As if everyone who ever had burned any fossil fuels ever is somehow personally responsible for everything that’s currently happening.
Here’s some news, we’ve been burning shit for more than a millennia. People, in and of themselves, don’t require so much heat and energy to create a problem. At least not individually. As a whole, small problem. Individually, microscopic problem at most.
Everyone seems to have fallen into this trap of everyone being personally responsible for the climate change. The vast majority of the issue is companies. Everyone wants to point at trucks and delivery vehicles and whatnot as major contributors when they do talk about contributions from companies, and you’re still way off base. It’s not even the air traffic that’s the problem. It’s the fucking boats. Nobody thinks about it, because nobody sees it. Either the boats are off at sea, or they’re docked in some yard, away from your vision. 90% of the time, they’re sailing. When they’re sailing, they’re operating the motors 24/7. Each ship, when operating, will consume more fuel in an hour than any one person would use in a year.
Since it’s mostly unregulated international waters, who are they reporting any of that shit to? So they don’t.
Yes. Climate change is real. Yes, we, personally, should be doing what we can to curb it. The fact is, if all of us did everything possible (switching to all renewable power, using EVs and all renewable powered appliances, etc) it would barely make a dent. All of the “personal responsibility” arguments are just a smokescreen from the big, very guilty corporations, to victim blame the public into turning on eachother so they can continue to destroy the environment unchecked. Based on these comments, they’re succeeding.
I’m not saying to not be mad. Be mad, get angry. Just be mad at the right people here. I’m not evil because I drive my 1.5L 4cyl sedan to the grocery once a week, and have a natural gas water heater. Sure, I should change that, and I’m sure I will be changing that when I can, but I’m not the problem. The greenhouse gasses I emit over my lifetime won’t offset the emissions of transport ships in a single year.
Just… Be mad at the right people. Stop making people feel bad for being given bad options because the automotive industry actively and knowingly rejected electric vehicles due to how deep they were with the oil industry. So people had to buy internal combustion vehicles because there literally was no other option at the time. I’ve had my car since 2014. In 2014, the model S (the only model at the time), was $70k USD to start. I didn’t have $70k USD to spend on a car (I still don’t). I spent less than one-quarter of that price on my vehicle, and I was barely able to afford it over a 5 year finance. Yet, based on these comments, I should be ashamed that I can’t afford a BEV? Or that I live too far from everything that I can’t ride a bike or something?
Come on people. You know who is really at fault here. Let’s just be angry at the right people.
Shiping represents about 10% of the 25% of global carbon emissions from transportation, so 2.5%, similar to aviation. Yes, it’s a problem but it’s not the boogeyman you seem to think it is.
100% this.
The problem isn’t X. Or Y. Or W.
The problem is A+B+C+D+E+F+G+H+I+J+K+L+M+N+O+P+Q+R+S+T+U+V+W+X+Y+Z+A1+B1 … etc.
We need to change everything. Everything needs a reduction. AND we need to build massive nuclear CO2 extraction facilities that generate synthetic fuels for the places where we need energy density, seeded with carbon captured from the few places where we still release.
And we can do it. It won’t even be that expensive, certainly not as expensive as we fear, once we get going.
But we lack the will. Things need to get a lot worse before we will get our asses in gear.
Everything needs a reduction. AND we need to build massive nuclear CO2 extraction facilities that generate synthetic fuels for the places where we need to energy density seeded with carbon captured in the few places where we still release.
What will actually happen is the rich people will get choice land in the areas still stable. The rest of us will be fighting for scraps and erecting shanty towns.
My point is less regarding the fact that it’s a big boogeyman… The point I’m trying to hit on here is that everyone is focused on personal responsibility with their own CO2 emissions and entire sectors have made zero progress, and they’re left completely out of the conversation.
We’re not going to solve the problem with a single solution. Its simply too large of an issue for that. We also can’t be entirely complacent on any factor. While consumer vehicles are a nontrivial contribution, it’s the same for global shipping; while there’s still a lot to do with personal vehicles before we’re on the right track, it seems to me that there’s been zero effort from global logistics to curb their diesel engine vessels on the open seas.
In addition to this, I’m always curious where the data for sites like the one you linked, actually comes from, not because I think it’s wrong, but because I’m wondering if it’s incomplete. It’s easy to simply ask each country for their emissions numbers, do a bit of addition and call it a day, but does that include emissions created in international waters? I don’t know. Do you?
Again, I’m not doubting the numbers, I’m just wondering if companies have tried to find loopholes to hide their emissions… And it’s 100% the companies that would do it too.
There are lots of folks working on maritime (and aviation) decarbonization, it’s not being ignored. It’s just harder than decarbonozing other sectors because they can’t just electrify like you and I can do with our cars and homes. The solution is likely to be synthetic fuels of some sort, ammonia, hydrogen, biodiesel, etc. We’re seeing sails come back, there have been innovation hull designs, etc. You could even call tarrifs a partial solution here because building locally reduces shipping needs. It’s just not as cheap/easy as installing solar panels/wind/batteries though. We need policy to drive change here, which puts it on a different level than the personal responsibility measures. I absolutely agree we need to do all of the above though.
As to the source, I don’t know but it’s cited in government records everywhere. They have a good handle of how much fuel is produced everywhere, we know exactly what ships exist and where they go in real time globally, we know how efficient they are, so it doesn’t seem nebulous enough to me to have any real doubt in. NASA can probably track all their emissions from space too.
Getting rid of dirty boat fuel is likely the reason why we see this sudden rise in temperature: https://lemmy.world/comment/10570999
These kinds of posts are designed to provoke anxiety and waste thousands of people’s time, ironically contributing to energy wastage. I don’t see how you can engage with posts like these and think you hate capitalism, you’re worshipping the act of consuming negativity and giving someone money from your doomerism lol. It’s almost like forum autists cannot into self awareness or something
I agree with your sentiment but if everyone is just pointing fingers we’re going to keep steamrolling ahead. We need to put the pressure on politicians by actually giving a fuck.
I’m fucking tired of people like my parents making tiny sacrifices and then patting themselves on the back for “doing their part for the climate”. Meanwhile they own 6 fucking cars. I’m fucking tired of how most people ridicule climate activists and act all frustrated that 500 strangers had their commute lengthened.
I agree that “taking personal responsibility” is mostly bullshit and isn’t going to fix climate change, but I still think everyone should do everything in their power to curb their impact. Not for the minute gains that they’ll make but as a form of activism in itself.
I agree. I said as much, but it’s good to say it again. It may not be your fault. You may not be the worst offender. That doesn’t mean you should do whatever the hell you want.
everyone should be doing everything they can to slow or stop the constant march that we’re seeing towards higher and higher global temperatures.
My main focus is that the entire narrative that I’ve ever seen is basically making people mad at their countrymen, neighbors, whomever, for driving the gas guzzling F350 trucks and rolling coal on hippie EV owners and crap… And yes, that’s one problem. That’s not the only problem, but it’s the only one that seems to be discussed.
We can’t relax on the push towards better options for everyone, but we also need to apply pressure where it needs to be, so that the very environmentally unfriendly practices of businesses also get the attention they need to be fixed.
My little sedan gets so little use because I refuse to drive several hours a day for work, so I found a job where I can work from home. It’s easily one of the most substantive contributions that I can make towards the goal… Drive less. I don’t have the funds to buy an EV right now, so if I can follow that first rule of “the three R’s” … Aka reduce, then that will be for the best.
But that leads me to another problem. People seem to think that recycling is as good as reduce/reuse, and bluntly, it’s not. Recycle is last on the list because it’s what you should be doing when reducing and reusing isn’t possible. But I digress.
There’s a lot of problems. I just want people to put pressure on global logistics companies that are running large diesel ships 24/7 so that we can get useless knickknacks from China, non-stop.
Thank YOU!
I am tired of this bullshit and all the bots/trolls/ai supporting it and passing on propaganda for the same people that created the issue in the first place.
So I fully agree with you!
“You know who is really at fault here. Let’s just be angry at the right people.”
Yep, and everyone is attacking me specifically citing boats, and yeah, boats contribute, and they’re an example of things that people don’t think about, but they’re hardly the only problem.
Even if we isolate ourselves to just consumer vehicles, if you look at what vehicles produce the most greenhouse gasses and which are driven the most, all of that is generally done by and for the benefit of companies. Whether it’s Joe driving 2+ hours to get to the office because his boss won’t allow him to work from home for no practical reason, or simply vintage car collections owned by millionaires or billionaires, which are true to their roots and are super inefficient… Or overpowered SUV/limo/busses (like tour busses) driving all the time to get from one place to another for a small group of people who would probably fit into much smaller and more efficient vehicles. But no, all these yuppies are blaming Jack, who works from home, and drives like twice a month because he hasn’t dropped $100k on an EV that he’ll never use, to replace his Toyota Corolla from 2010, which still works perfectly. Yeah, Jack is the problem (/s).
Everyone is so hung up on pointing fingers at eachother and their neighbors for continuing to drive combustion vehicles. I paid around $15k for my vehicle, 10 years ago, and I’ve moved into a fully work from home position. It sits in my driveway 8 out of every 10 days, at least. The days I do drive it, I’m usually on the road for less than an hour. Yet the comments here would have me think that I need to go buy an EV. Why? My car works perfectly. I would literally be wasting more resources by throwing out my perfectly working car, to buy a new driveway filler… The heck?
Boats are actually one of the most efficient and scalable methods of transport. Sure they produce a lot of emissions, but it’s still very small in the context of global emissions (2.5%) and are an invaluable asset. There are many other things you should go after before shipping.
Bots are a large contributer, for sure but that doesn’t mean we should give the unbridled car use a free pass.
Also, shit will be hitting loads of fans real soon, no matter who’s to blame. As far as I can see we’ve passed “too late” about a decade ago and though humanity won’t go extinct, do expect many many other species to go extinct. Expect loads of environmental disasters like draughts and extreme hurricanes, expect failed crops and food shortages, expect not enough water. Expect everything to become much more expensive, expect more wars about the abundant resources now finally really becoming scarce.
It could have been so easy to stop all of these, but rich people, who are the final real problem here, don’t give a shit. They’re too dumb and self centric to care. I wonder what the world will do when shit really hits the fan. By then I’m sure those in charge will find ways to blame the Arab/Jews/blacks/gays/poor/immigrants/the usual shit
This is lunacy. You’re saying “let’s stop blaming the wrong people and have a calm rational discussion”
Religious idiots refuse to believe in global warming, scientists are lighting themselves on fire to warn people and no one cares because of religion (which is the only reason people doubt this), and it’s too late and we’re going to all die.
Calmly coming up with sensible solutions to be angry at the right people is ridiculous. Companies are also still just people. There is a reason why people allow global warming, don’t believe the environment could be destroyed, and vote for corrupt idiots who tell them fantasies: the reason is religion. People are corrupt and stupid and believe religion and until all of the religious fantasy pushers are destroyed, this trajectory will continue.
The only problem is there is no stopping this trajectory. We are all in a large house, we’ve lit in on fire, the entire structure is ablaze, and you’re saying “let’s talk about who is really to blame…”
Instead, we should philosophically make peace with our own doom, however that’s done. Everyone religious is to blame and should feel bad. The religious all enabled ignoring the problem by encouraging illogical stupid thinking.
I don’t blame religious people specifically. I would agree that a lot of the problematic people are religious, but I don’t think they’re a problem because of their religion specifically.
It’s conspiracy theorizing nutbars who believe in crap like the earth being flat. Not specifically or exclusively flat-earth types, they’re just a really good example of the climate/science denying fuckheads I’m referring to. That’s one big group of problematic people. The other big group is capitalists, which are frequently conservative/right/religious types. Capitalists only give a shit about one thing, and it’s disgusting. Money. If whatever is happening is not making them money, then they could not possibly give any fewer shits about it. This is the root problem in corporations. The fucking corpos who would never bother to care about anything that helps anyone, unless they can profit from it. There’s very little profit in saving the environment.
Unless they’re legally obligated to do something differently, and unless that difference will benefit them monetarily, they don’t do it. Hell, if it wasn’t for federally mandated occupational health and safety, they would still be sending folks into tunnels carrying nitroglycerin to blast open the next section (and other extremely dangerous and frequently fatal tasks). But because of shit like OSHA, they can’t so much as order you to climb a ladder if they haven’t met a minimum standard of safety.
Again, angry at the right people here.
Now, IMO, the conspiracy people need medication and therapy, and the capitalists need to be given a long walk off a short pier, while being told there’s money at the end of the walk. Some people we would just be better without. To be clear, I’m more civilized than to take any physical action against them, but that doesn’t stop me from wanting someone to do it. They’re environmental criminals, every last one. The problem with their crimes is that everyone will suffer for them.
My main focus with my statements is that people shouldn’t waste time arguing with their neighbors and countrymen (those who have no authority over anything outside of their personal lives), and focus their efforts on enacting systematic change. The former is kind of a waste of time, and who gives a shit if Walter believes that corpos can do nothing wrong, driving around in his F350… If we change the system and ban ICE vehicles, Walter’s next vehicle will be an EV, whether he likes it or not.
It is absolutely the religious people who have caused the destruction of the global ecosystem and will lead to its collapse.
If you ask 100 atheists if environmental catastrophe is upon us, nearly all will say yes.
It is only the delusion that magical sky god and his special friends jesus and mohamud and budah look over the planet and are testing our morality that allows dipshits to believe the earth can’t be destroyed by sufficiently altering the chemical composition of its atmosphere and by generating sufficient waste byproducts.
These people ARE the problem.
Religion allows the political problems to exist because philosophically people view existence and reality in a distorted fairy tale manner.