from the comments
Quick question, who formed an alliance with Hitler? Stalin or Roosevelt?
The answer to this question is “Mussolini and Tojo”. Several European countries signed a “Non Aggression Pact” before the USSR, and then the USSR signed a “Non Aggression Pact” to buy time because they knew an invasion was inevitable.
Aha, but we decided that World War II arbitrarily started when Germany invaded Poland after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, and didn’t start because of any conflicts before or after that. Checkmate, tankie
Viewing WWI and WW2 as basically one giant war with an interlude would be too difficult for Neoliberal posters but if you mention Crecy or Agincourt they’ll probably blather something about the Hundred Years War. Deeply unserious understanders of History.
In fairness, I do think that the “one long war” thesis becomes less relevant when you step outside of Europe.
In Asia, WWII grew much more directly out of the second Sino-Japanese War, which is much more related to the long strand of Japanese imperialism towards mainland Asia than the outcome of WWI (though of course animosity at some of the outcomes of Versailles were relevant, I don’t think they were such a defining factor). In the Middle East, the collapse of the Ottoman Empire meant that the region went from one of the primary belligerents to somewhat of a sideshow. I’m sure someone more well versed in Africa and South America could also point out some differences between the wars.
Corporate America could have been an Axis power with how much it supported the Fascists, and the neutrality between Berlin and Moscow was nothing compared to the alliance between Europe’s Fascist empires.
The USSR also tried to form alliances with the Allies but we’re rejected. Nazi Germany was very much their last choice despite being invaded by many of the Allies during the Russian Civil War
yes and I wouldn’t really say nazi germany was a “choice” for an ally, or even an “ally,” the soviets were, again, stalling, buying time, and pretty much knew germany was eventually going to invade them, since hitler had spent the previous 19 years screeching into microphones about “judeobolshevism” and “the slavic untermensch” and the need for “lebensraum”
(yeah I’m posting wikipedia, I don’t feel like spending the rest of my sunday night hunting down the specific books on libgen that are cited on each page, suffice it to say these are events which did occur, and even English Wikipedia doesn’t deny them, the problem with a lot of these pacts is that they are named different things by different countries)
Four-Power Pact (worth noting france did not ratify)
Anti Comintern Pact since this was between Japan/Germany there’s less amnesia about it
German Romanian Economical Treaty March 1939
German Ultimatum to Lithuania in March 1939 seems a bit unfair to characterize as a treaty tbh
“Pact of Steel” with Italy 1939 Now THIS is actually a military alliance pact, which is what people keep characterizing molotov-ribbentrop as
Danish-German non aggression pact May 1939 this one isn’t wikipedia
Germany Estonia N-A-Pact June 7th 1939
German-Latvian N-A-Pact June 7th 1939
Also it’s worth noting that even though the USA never signed a non aggression pact with nazi germany, american capitalists were quite fond of funding nazis, doing trade with nazis, and even hosting nazi party rallies in the United States (such as one in madison square garden in 1939). And there was even a fascist attempt at a coup against FDR, that was thwarted by smedley butler being a whistleblower.
What makes people freak out about molotov ribbentrop is the agreement to partition states. the reason for this is because the USSR needed time to deconstruct factories and move them east before the luftwaffe could bomb them. The USSR made a calculated risk that by dividing poland they could move the future war front far west of where it would otherwise be if they refused a non aggression pact and just got invaded right away, and at the same time, move their war industry far east of the war front. Of course by making this calculated risk they gave an easy propaganda victory to all bourgeois nations who experience collective amnesia about every other non aggression pact, as well as their categorical refusal to enter into collective security against fascism with the “bolshevik menace” in the 1930s. It is somewhat similar to how USSR tried to join NATO in the 50s and was refused. The bourgeois nations never wanted collective security or peace with the USSR, even when it was on the table. In particular the USSR only invaded finland because it was the most convenient route to invade the USSR, and the Finnish (a future axis power) wouldn’t sell them the land that the nazis eventually used to invade.
But mah westphalian sacred nation state national borders sovereignty! You can’t just go around doing sttategy like the lines on the map aren’t sacred and holy!
Note that the Finnish government was prepared to accept the land swap with the ussr until some old White generals barged in and shut it all down. But, again, my sovereignty! Won’t anyone think of my sovereignty!
Similar amnesia about Putin trying to normalize relations with the west and join nato years ago.
What makes people freak out about molotov ribbentrop is the agreement to partition states.
Made even “funnier” given that the Munich Agreement ALSO included a partition agreement: Germany got the Sudetenland region of Czechoslovakia. Truly just hypocrisy to single out the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact like they do
When you mention that USSR proposed to sent million soldiers to guard Poland, they immediately point out Poland was very hostile to USSR and would never agreed (though it’s not even correct, they would most likely if pressurised by UK and France), and even by their own understanding this make M-R not even comparable to Munich because M-R divided hostile state while in Munich UK-FR-DE partitioned country which was FORMAL FRENCH ALLY.
Your ideology is responsable for the death of an entire branch of my family during the Vietnam war. Go fuck yourself shitstain.
LOL get rekt
There are entire American Indians tribes wiped out by American Liberalism, go fuck yourself r/neolib
19 million plus people were killed. the culture, languages, everything was obliterated to the best ability of the bloodthirsty monsters that forced the people off of the land leaving the survivors were left to pick up the pieces under brutal colonial oppression. and this piece of shit has the audacity to whine about their fascist vietnamese family being caught in the crossfire of the heroic struggle of liberation of their homeland.
in that exact same conflict way more people were killed by the US in the name of anti-communism goddamn
Got a screenshot? I went trying to find that, but got a headache and had to look away
Unable to give any logical explanations for such atrocities
Uh, no, the logical explanation is that it
A. Didn’t happen (95% probability)
B. Did happen and your shitty fascist grandpa deserved it (4.9% probability)
C. Happened and it sucked, war is messy (0.1% probability)
(Mods pls make a bot that posts this any time r/neoliberal is brought up)
PPI has been around since 1989 and views itself as Bill Clinton’s “idea mill” aka think tank. Why I call them a fossil fuel think tank is detailed here. They oppose climate action, defend fracking, and receive donations from Exxon Mobil.
it’s safe to say that their upvotes are farmed, and their organic support is mostly bourgeois economics and political science majors and interns who hope to work for PPI or a similar think tank one day. It’s basically a Neera Tanden farm.
The creator of r/neoliberal, Colin Mortimer, is the Director of the Center for New Liberalism at PPI, which seeks to “develop a salient identity around the center-left values that have increasingly come under fire in this age of populism.”
copy the text in this spoiler tag to repost
PPI has been around since 1989 and views itself as Bill Clinton's "idea mill" aka think tank. [Why I call them a fossil fuel think tank is detailed here.](https://archive.is/4Voil#selection-595.0-597.270) They oppose climate action, defend fracking, and receive donations from Exxon Mobil.
it's safe to say that their upvotes are farmed, and their organic support is mostly bourgeois economics and political science majors and interns who hope to work for PPI or a similar think tank one day. It's basically a Neera Tanden farm.
The creator of r/neoliberal, [Colin Mortimer](https://twitter.com/Colinmort), is the [Director of the Center for New Liberalism at PPI](https://archive.is/Jq2sO), which seeks to "develop a salient identity around the center-left values that have increasingly come under fire in this age of populism."
this age of populism
This age of populism where there is less and less “populism”
Manufactured “Populism”, more like. Funny how all of the right wing “populists” are funded by the most powerful capitalists on the planet.
Two people there independently made a “you are serving me at a cafe lmao” joke, these freaks really hate working people
“You’re circle-jerking on the internet while at that cafe while your date is getting bored.”
That shit pissed me off so much. I hope all their coffees are fucked with in the future.
The top reply being an “I make money and you have to work” comment is really funny. Bro we know, if you didn’t have a fake job at daddy’s lawfirm you wouldn’t be a neoliberal.
It’s true, the only reason I’m a communist is that my dad doesn’t have a law firm.
