I see what the writer is saying for sure but I’ll be honest and say Spider-Man wasn’t the best choice of superhero to try to make this point
He’s always depicted as hand-to-mouth poor.
Of all the superheroes, he’s probably the most proletariat-affiliated.
On the other side, there are examples like the Pym family, who destroy their stretch limos whenever they’re dirty to buy new ones.
I just want to start this sentence with saying that I know literally nothing about Captain America, but I’m willing to bet that Captain America would be a much better choice. Maybe not the current reincarnation, as most movie studios have realized that not everyone is pro establishment. But maybe Captain America of a few decades ago.
I mean, there was k8nd of a whole event that lead to a massive super powered civil war where Cap lead the charge on the “rebel,” side. The movie didn’t do it justice, at all, but still had Cap on the anti-government interference side.
While you were writing that, I was expanding my comment as the current (2010ish and later) super hero writers have kind of realized that government isn’t inherently good. Which time frame are you referencing?
Captain America in 1970s briefly abandoned being captain America after preventing the US president from doing a coup as a cult leader
wasn’t there a movie a couple years ago where the bad guy was a union member?
Yeah the first Tom Holland Spider-Man has a protagonist that was a union guy who spent his savings trying to keep his business alive but buying the alien tech cleanup contract. The government under Tony starks direction takeover the cleanup and fail to repay the union guy who then turns to theft violence and eventually murder.
Since spiderman was used as an example I’ll list the villains for the newer spider man films, you tell me where the films are promoting the status quo:
Homecoming: a group of criminals who stole incredibly advanced weapons and used them to terrorize communities in new york.
Far from home: a guy gets really pissed that some technology that he made for a company was property of the company, starts endangering civilians to make him look like a hero.
No way home: Classic spider man villains from other universes come to this Spiderman’s universe, spider man tries to help them improve themselves and there lives
This comic is just a “quit having fun” but with leftist pandering
Homecoming: Blue collar workers are told they’re fired and replaced by billionaire Tony Stark’s new government backed company, Haliburton. I mean Defence Force or something. System failed them so they said fuck it.
Far From Home: Billionaire’s company steals invention of his employee and passes it off as his own. Makes more billions. Dozens of the employees quit to support employee’s new plans of taking back his tech and usurping Billionaire’s world dominance. System failed them so they said fuck it.
No Way Home: Literally just a movie about how Spiderman and the system failed these “villains” who really just needed support with mental health and navigating a shit system.
I’ll give you the first two, even if neither one was at all constructive or even radical about it. (Neither of them were really trying to change the system, just to abuse it for themselves after being told they couldn’t succeed inside of it).
The third one is practically the antithesis of this comic.
If we want to argue the other way:
Homecoming: Tony Stark fucks over a bunch of union workers, leading them into a life of crime to support their families.
Far From Home: Tony Stark fucks over a fellow scientist, dismissing his lifes work as a party trick and tanking his career, the scientist then uses his technology to make himself appear as a hero and save his reputation.
No Way Home: Spider Man condemns four out of five men to die in their home universe, attempting to rehabilitate them and reverse their powers before their eventual deaths.
and if we want to argue the other other way:
Homecoming: tony stark decides to actually help clean up after himself for once instead of making the citizens of new york pay for it (many of whom are homeless after the events of “avengers”). Some union workers start to destroy small businesses and kill people because of that
Far from home: A guy kills people because his invention wasn’t respected as much as he would prefer
No way home: spider man destroys his whole life and sacrifices 4 people who he tried to help for the sake of all life in the multiverse
Homecoming: tony stark decides to actually help clean up after himself for once instead of making the citizens of new york pay for it (many of whom are homeless after the events of “avengers”). Some union workers start to destroy small businesses and kill people because of that
This reminds me of the situation where people thought they were doing good by sending free food and clothes to underserved African populations, but it turns out it was putting their local manufacturers out of business.
Far from home: A guy kills people because his invention wasn’t respected as much as he would prefer
Billionaire names the employee’s invention “BARF” craps all over it, then uses it for himself
No way home: spider man destroys his whole life and sacrifices 4 people who he tried to help for the sake of all life in the multiverse
Why was the multiverse in trouble again?
What superhero movies are you watching?
I feel like this had to have been made by someone who doesn’t watch superhero TV shows or movies. I’m watching X-Men right now and it’s the complete opposite of this.
The one where a brutal space pig who was committing genocide on an alien race until she found out they had women whose lesson at the end of the movie is to be more emotional as she uses a weapon that allows her to destroy an aircraft carrier at will. The ones where a monarchist ethnostate that tortures outsiders is presented as a utopia. The ones where a rich arms dealer gave the most powerful weapon system on the planet to some kid he liked. The ones where a dumb frat boy causes inter dimensional wars by acting like a dumb frat boy.
I don’t understand people who push this narrative. It’s generally just… not true?
It’s definitely true sometimes. The tortured revolutionary that took it too far is a very common trope. A lot of the time, it’s just very wishy-washy, as you’d expect from a mass produced cash machine like Marvel. When you’re making so many stories, they’re not all going to be winners, for any number of reasons. The people that think Marvel is making propaganda are just looking for it. The movies just aren’t that good, they’re not hiding some sinister motive
Have you watched a superhero movie or read a comic book? Nearly every villain is just a violent person trying to change things and the hero fights to keep things the way they are.
Never have I seen a villain trying to change things for the better. World domination, sure
Batman (the comics, anyways) is full of villains like that. Mr. Freeze just wanted to save his wife and went off the deep end after people pulled the plug on her cryogenic stasis pod, killing her. Poison Ivy was a biologist who worked on saving the world from ecological collapse and came to the conclusion that humanity would never change in time to save itself, so the only way to save the world is through violence, which is why she usually targets companies polluting the environment and their owners. Cat Woman is often depicted as either a petty thief making big scores for the thrill of it, or Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and donating the money to cat shelters and stuff. Sure, there are plenty of more standard villains in Batman, but when done right, Batman is largely the story of a broken man trying to save other broken people and stop them from hurting themselves and others.
The most literal example of a villain trying to save the world I can think of is Ozynmandias in The Watchmen. The story revolves around a plot by Ozymandias to basically explode two nuclear bombs and make it seem like attacks by Dr Manhattan in order to stop the Cold War from going hot by uniting the Soviets and the US against him. The comic is a total deconstruction of the genre, but it’s definitely the most outright “the villain saves the world through mass murder” story you can find.
“I grew up poor, my family had to struggle, my uncle beat me and/or died… but instead of getting handouts!, life threw me a curve ball and radiated/bit me into bootstrapping myself! and helping my community or something. I dunno, cops don’t show up anymore.”
