21 points

What a surprise, right?

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-2 points

Eaxctly my point as well here… https://kbin.melroy.org/m/technology@lemmy.world/t/461269/-/comment/4095583

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81 points

Lmao my job announced layoffs a few months back. They continue to parade their corporate restructuring plan in front of us like we give a fuck if shareholders make money. My output has dropped significantly as I search for another role. Whatever code I do write now is always just copy pasted from AI (which is getting harder to use…fuck you Copilot). I give zero fucks about this place anymore. Maybe if people had some small semblance of investment in their company’s success (i.e.: not milked by shareholders and beaten to dust by shitty profit driven metrics that take away from the core business), the employees might give enough fucks to not copy paste shitty third party code.

Additionally, this is a training issue. Don’t offload the training of your people onto the universities (which then trap the students into an insurmountable debt load leading them to take jobs they otherwise wouldn’t want to take just to eat and have a roof over their heads). The modern corporate landscape has created a perfect shitstorm of disincentives for genuine effort and diligence. Then you expect us to give a shit about your company even though the days of 40 years and a pension are now gone. We’re stuck with 401k plans and social security and the luck of the draw as to whether we can retire or not. Work your whole life for what? Fuck you. I’m gonna generate that AI code and enjoy my 30s and 40s.

A workforce trapped by debt, forced to prioritize job security and paycheck size over passion or purpose. People end up in roles they don’t care about, working for companies they have no investment in, simply to keep up with loan payments and the ever increasing cost of living.

“Why is my organization falling apart!?” Fucking look up from the stupid fucking metrics that don’t actually tell you anything you dumb fucks. Make an actual human decision and fix the wealth inequality. It’s literally always wealth inequality.

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18 points

15 years ago I got a job where I wasn’t allowed to do anything. I hated it. I wanted to learn and be valuable and be valued. I left that job.

I worked for a bank and then Red Hat and I loved what I did and burned myself out trying to make them happy. Only to find out they still didn’t value me.

I switched jobs two years ago and increased my pay 30% overnight and back to a job doing nothing. And I’m totally fine with it now. I have a family and I focus on them and during work, if they don’t have anything for me to do I make my own happiness.

Fuck corporations. I’ll take your money, I’ll never again kill myself as I’ll never be valued anyway. Jobs aren’t worth it. People are.

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7 points

I told my manager that I’ve been burned and can’t make myself work hard for another company again. She’s leaving so there’s no vested interest in the company for her. But yeah, fuck these cunts.

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3 points

Similar trajectory for me, but I’m now being micromanaged on the daily. We got a new CIO recently who is micromanaging his direct reports and our culture has evaporated overnight. The shit is indeed rolling down hill and the writing is on the wall to leave. I know it’s not just me either. There will be an exodus when rates get cut and hiring picks up again. This place is fucked.

But that’s the key. If you can find something and lay low with minimal annoyance, hang onto that for as long as you can.

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39 points

“People work in roles they don’t care about, for companies they have no investment in, to pay loans they shouldn’t have.”

That sounds like a fight club quote lol. I know you didn’t say “loans they shouldn’t have” but the cost of college is just stupidly high. It doesn’t have to be free but come on.

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9 points

It doesn’t have to be free but come on.

I beg to differ! My degree was free for all intents and purposes, and no, it didn’t take away from the challenge or the quality of education. I cried blood tears in order to graduate but it was worth it.

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7 points

Chuck Palahniuk leaking into my writing like the carrot out of the protagonist’s ass in Guts.

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4 points

You are my spirit animal.

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2 points

Are you also finding copilot to be less helpful of late? The other day it couldn’t follow the simplest of instructions

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1 point

For me it’s the “Stop responding” button. Sometimes I’ll neglect something in my prompt, such as the fact that I’m stuck on ES5 javascript in my job (ServiceNow). It’ll spit out ES6+ with let declarations or something like that, and I have to go back and qualify my limitations. So I click stop responding. What used to happen was that it would stop and allow for additional prompting. Now it’s just like a client side trick. It hides the output but the server is still returning shit in the background, so if I try to re-prompt or add context it finishes what it was originally saying first, then tacks the new answer onto the old one without pause, separation, or human readable formatting that would indicate that there is a new output. It’s an awful experience.

I’ve been using perplexity.ai but my company thinks its agreements will stop Microsoft from training their AIs on our proprietary data, so I have to be more careful with perplexity than Copilot.

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272 points

Wow, the text generator that doesn’t actually understand what it’s “writing” is making mistakes? Who could have seen that coming?

I once asked one to write a basic 50-line Python program (just to flesh things out), and it made so many basic errors that any first-year CS student could catch. Nobody should trust LLMs with anything related to security, FFS.

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110 points
*

Nobody should trust LLMs with anything

ftfy

also any inputs are probably scrapped and used for training, and none of these people get GDPR

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17 points
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also any inputs are probably scraped

ftfy

Let’s hope it’s the bad outputs that are scrapped. <3

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8 points

Eh, I’d say mostly.

I have one right now that looks at data and says “Hey, this is weird, here are related things that are different when this weird thing happened. Seems like that may be the cause.”

Which is pretty well within what they are good at, especially if you are doing the training yourself.

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0 points

you are part of the problem

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92 points

I wish we could say the students will figure it out, but I’ve had interns ask for help and then I’ve watched them try to solve problems by repeatedly asking ChatGPT. It’s the scariest thing - “Ok, let’s try to think about this problem for a moment before we - ok, you’re asking ChatGPT to think for a moment. FFS.”

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27 points

Critical thinking is not being taught anymore.

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20 points

Has critical thinking ever been taught? Feel like it’s just something you have or you don’t.

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1 point
Deleted by creator
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13 points

I had a chat w/ my sibling about the future of various careers, and my argument was basically that I wouldn’t recommend CS to new students. There was a huge need for SW engineers a few years ago, so everyone and their dog seems to be jumping on the bandwagon, and the quality of the applicants I’ve had has been absolutely terrible. It used to be that you could land a decent SW job without having much skill (basically a pulse and a basic understanding of scripting), but I think that time has passed.

I absolutely think SW engineering is going to be a great career long-term, I just can’t encourage everyone to do it because the expectations for ability are going to go up as AI gets better. If you’re passionate about it, you’re going to ignore whatever I say anyway, and you’ll succeed. But if my recommendation changes your mind, then you probably aren’t passionate enough about it to succeed in a world where AI can write somewhat passable code and will keep getting (slowly) better.

I’m not worried at all about my job or anyone on my team, I’m worried for the next batch of CS grads who chatGPT’d their way through their degree. “Cs get degrees” isn’t going to land you a job anymore, passion about the subject matter will.

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12 points
*

Outsourcing killed a lot of the junior and even mid-level career level opportunities in CS and AI seems on track to do the same.

The downside is that going into CS now (and having gone into CS in the last decade or so, especially in English-speaking countries) was basically the career equivalent of just out of the starting line running full speed into a brick wall.

The upside is that for anybody who now is a senior techie things have never been this good because there are significantly fewer people at that level than there is need for such people, since in the last decade or so a lot of people haven’t had the chance to progress in their careers to that point.

Whilst personally this benefits me, I’m totally against this shit and what it has done to the kids entering my career.

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6 points

And that’s not even getting into how flooded the sector is with the hundreds of thousands being laid off for the past few years

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-3 points

Altering the prompt will certainly give a different output, though. Ok, maybe “think about this problem for a moment” is a weird prompt; I see how it actually doesn’t make much sense.

However, including something along the lines of “think through the problem step-by-step” in the prompt really makes a difference, in my experience. The LLM will then, to a higher degree, include sections of “reasoning”, thereby arriving at an output that’s more correct or of higher quality.

This, to me, seems like a simple precursor to the way a model like the new o1 from OpenAI (partly) works; It “thinks” about the prompt behind the scenes, presenting only the resulting output and a hidden (by default) generated summary of the secret raw “thinking” to the user.

Of course, it’s unnecessary - maybe even stupid - to include nonsense or smalltalk in LLM prompts (unless it has proven to actually enhance the output you want), but since (some) LLMs happen to be lazy by design, telling them what to do (like reasoning) can definitely make a great difference.

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3 points

And that’s why I’m the one that fixes the PC when it breaks… because even good programmers may even consider the pc to be magicboxes if they’ve never turned a screwdriver in their life…

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59 points

My experience with ChatGPT goes like this:

  • Write me a block of code that makes x thing
  • Certainly, here’s your code
  • Me: This is wrong.
  • You’re right, this is the correct version
  • Me: This is wrong again.
  • You’re right, this is the correct version
  • Me: Wrong again, you piece of junk.
  • I’m sorry, this is the correct version.
  • (even more useless code) … and so on.
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36 points
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All the while it gets further and further from the requirements. So you open five more conversations, give them the same prompt, and try pick which one is least wrong.

All the while realising you did this to save time but at this point coding from scratch would have been faster.

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30 points
*

I interviewed someone who used AI (CoPilot, I think), and while it somewhat worked, it gave the wrong implementation of a basic algorithm. We pointed out the mistake, the developer fixed it (we had to provide the basic algorithm, which was fine), and then they refactored and AI spat out the same mistake, which the developer again didn’t notice.

AI is fine if you know what you’re doing and can correct the mistakes it makes (i.e. use it as fancy code completion), but you really do need to know what you’re doing. I recommend new developers avoid AI like the plague until they can use it to cut out the mundane stuff instead of filling in their knowledge gaps. It’ll do a decent job at certain prompts (i.e. generate me a function/class that…), but you’re going to need to go through line-by-line and make sure it’s actually doing the right thing. I find writing code to be much faster than reading and correcting code so I don’t bother w/ AI, but YMMV.

An area where it’s probably ideal is finding stuff in documentation. Some projects are huge and their search sucks, so being able to say, “find the docs for a function in library X that does…” I know what I want, I just may not remember the name or the module, and I certainly don’t remember the argument order.

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19 points

AI is fine if you know what you’re doing and can correct the mistakes it makes (i.e. use it as fancy code completion)

I’m not a developer and i havent touched code for over 10 yrs, but when i heard about my company pushing AI tools on the devs, i thought exactly what you said. It should be a tool for experienced devs who already know what they’re doing…

Lo and behold they did the opposite… They fired all the senior people and pushed AI on the interns and new grads… and then expected AI to suddenly make the jr devs work like the expensive Sr devs they just fired…

Wtf

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8 points

AI is like having an intern you can delegate to. If you give it a simple enough task with clear direction, it can come up with something useful, but you need to check.

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8 points

That sums up my experience too, but I have found it good for discussing functions for SQL and Powershell. Sometimes, it’ll throw something into its garbage code and I’ll be like “what does this do?” It’ll explain how it’s supposed to work, I’ll then work out its correct usage and solve my problem. Weirdly, it’s almost MORE helpful than if it just gave me functional code, because I have to learn how to properly use it rather than just copy/paste what it gives me.

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6 points

That’s true. The mistakes actually make learning possible!

Man, designing CS curriculum will be easy in future. Just ask it to do something simple, and ask your CS students to correct the code.

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6 points

AI created 17 Security Corporation™️s in response to this comment.

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1 point

What llm did you use, and how long ago was it? Claude sonnet usually writes pretty good python for smaller scripts (a few hundred lines)

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5 points

It was ChatGPT from earlier this year. It wasn’t a huge deal for me that it made mistakes, because I had a very specific use case and just wanted to save some time; I knew I’d have to troubleshoot grafting it into my function, but even after I pointed out that it was using depreciated syntax (and how to correct it), it just spat out the code again with even more errors and still using depreciated syntax.

All LLMs will fail like this in some way, because they don’t actually understand what they’re generating (i.e. they have no mechanism for self-evaluating the veracity of their statements).

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-1 points
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This is a very simple one, but someone lower down apparently had issue with a script like this:

https://i.imgur.com/wD9XXYt.png

I tested the code, it works. If I was gonna change anything, probably move matplotlib import to after else so it’s only imported when needed to display the image.

I have a lot more complex generations in my history, but all of them have personal or business details, and have much more back and forth. But try it yourself, claude have a free tier. Just try to be clear in the prompt what you want. It might surprise you.

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1 point

I like using it like a rubber ducky. I even have it respond almost entirely in quacks.

Note: it’s a local model running for free. Don’t pay anyone for this slop.

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82 points

“When asked about buggy AI, a common refrain is ‘it is not my code,’ meaning they feel less accountable because they didn’t write it.”

That’s… That’s so fucking cool…

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12 points

Amazing

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101 points

Good. This is digital Darwinism at its finest. Weeds out the companies who thought they could save money by relying on a digital monkey instead of actual professionals.

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