10-year-old Fatima Jaafar Abdullah was killed in pager explosions in Lebanon.
Israel murders another kid again.
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I get going after your ‘enemy,’ but this is even worse than firing randomly into a crowd of Palestinians. They pushed a button not knowing who would die. This is low, even for them.
I can’t even think of a devil’s advocate argument for this.
Not that I think the Israel is the good guy in this conflict, but your argument is pretty weak.
Pager are designed to be trackable. If you have such deep access to these devices, you know exactly who got called by whom and when.
Yes, there will be collateral damage, but that’s almost a given in any armed conflict.
If these were one-way pagers,they are not easy to track, as they don’t transmit messages, but only receive and display them.
…and you know which telephone numbers send data to the pager and at which time. That is sufficient to track or identify individuals.
If this is a supply chain attack, the attacker already knows, which pagers are part of the organization they want to target.
What this thread here shows really well, is that the general population vastly underestimates the abilities of intelligence agencies and technology in general.
So which armed conflict in the middle of Beirut are you talking about now?
Maybe the guys shooting rockets at Israel?
Don’t play dumber than you are.
I believe the devil’s advocate argument would be that, based on Hezbollah’s internal communications, the Mossad intercepted a shipment of pagers which were being purchased to replace their (potentially compromised) mobile phones, knowing that these were - in theory - being distributed exclusively to Hezbollah operatives. That would make it the most precise military strike of all time.
Everyone who launches a rocket is accepting the possibility of “collateral damage”, but this is surely the most surgical of surgical strikes in history. And yet, yes, they must have accepted the risk of bystander casualties, which just serves to highlight how awful that logic is. It’s definitely not worse than randomly firing into a crowd, though.
It’s literally a war crime to attack people who are not actively participating in combat. That includes people who are members of your enemy’s military.
That includes people who are members of your enemy’s military.
No, members of an enemy’s military are combatants regardless of whether they’re holding a gun or in a firefight at the time. The only exception is personnel such as chaplains and medics.
That would make every crime a war crime going back thousands of years where they would lay siege on villages until the citizens starved
That is absolutely not true. An easy example to disprove your argument would be the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7th, 1941. The American Navy was caught completely by surprise. At the end of the war, there were some Japanese tried for war crimes, but not for the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor.
That would make it the most precise military strike of all time.
Pretty sure that honor still goes to the R9X Slap Chop. The pager explosions, on the other hand, injured thousands.
I really don’t get it. Other than the “WAOW” factor, this certainly can’t have been a good use of resources for Israel.
Correct.
Killing civilians isn’t a war crime. Deliberately killing civilians, or not taking reasonable steps to minimize civilian casualties is a war crime.
“Small” explosive that is embedded in something passed to and likely worn by the target is unlikely to be a war crime. If they somehow snuck a 1000lb bomb into one it absolutely would be however.
Booby trapping objects associated with daily civilian use is a war crime
These pagers were distributed to doctors and nurses, so I would also argue that they were booby trapping medical supplies, which are protected.
I feel like people are missing one of the more heinous aspects of this, which is that it injured thousands of people and only managed to kill ~10 of their targets. The outcome of this attack is going to be general terror and potentially hundreds of life altering injuries but very little military advantage.
The advantage is huge. 1000s of militants are now seriously injured and are no longer battle ready. Many will never be again. Massive success for Israel, and one of the most precision strikes ever used. Now there will be fear from any communication devise exploding, there will be 1000s of man hours wasted taking other stuff apart to check it, and morale will be down as well.
If anyone else did this, it would be universally recognized as a heinous act of state-sponsered terrorism.
I have a some question(s).
Did all pagers in Lebanon just explode or was it only targeted pagers of terrorists that exploded? where they rigged with explosives? how can such a small device in the hands of so few people hurt so many people if they were not rigged with explosives? Was it only terrorist using pagers or is this still a thing i Lebanon?
Doesn’t matter if it was hizbollah pagers or not. Hizbollah fighter also had to live normal life, go to shops to buy food etc
This is why i also ask if they were rigged with explosives or they somehow made the batteries explode or smth. There are no details in the local news but clips of some guy falling over because something in his pocket exploded. This made no sense that something like that, could cause 2750 injuries unless almost 3000 pagers exploded in a similar way, especially because everything around these guys, was barelly affected!
From what I have read elsewhere, batteries don’t explode. They can heat up and catch fire, but not explode. From what I have read online, a small amount of explosives were added to the pagers plus a very small detonator.
Hezbollah fighter could choose to live normal life and not be a member of Hezbollah. Lay down with dogs, wake up with fleas…
I don’t care about hizbollah. I care about the civilians who didn’t choose to be with a hizbollah fighter in the same place. Israel did the plan knowing really well that civilians and members of the fighter families would die.
I’m going to guess she was very close to her father when the bomb went off. According to reports, a message (phone number?) was sent to all of the intercepted Hezbollah pagers at 3pm local time (IIRC), after a couple of seconds, the bomb went off. So a likely scenario is the father had the girl on his lap, the pager starts buzzing/ringing, dad reaches into his pocket and pulls out the pager to read the message. Proximity to the pager killed the girl while only injuring dad since he has a much greater body mass. Or, perhaps the pager was laying on a table and the girl picked it up? It’s sad, either way.
If iPhones had explosives planted in them straight out of the factory and would’ve went off in New York all at the same time, injuring thousands and endangering people around them, the 24/7 news cycle would’ve already called for total annihilation and what not.
Indeed. I’m paging Nasrallah right now that he should update his manifesto
10 year old girl clearly was in a right wing terrorist group.
Wide range bombings like this are not a military tactic aimed at neutralizing a threat. This is literally what terrorists do to cause terror.
Distributing bombs to terrorists is about as exact as you can get. It’s not on Israel if a terrorist lets their kids play with their tools.
Israel could have leveled a block in Lebanon like they do in Gaza, but they didn’t.
10 year old girl clearly was in a right wing terrorist group.
This is what Israelis actually believe
In an episode of Two Nice Jewish Boys, which aired three weeks ago, host Weinstein said: “If you gave me a button to just erase Gaza, every single living being in Gaza would no longer be living tomorrow. I would press it in a second.”
He claimed that “most Israelis” would do the same.
Meningher added that they would also want to wipe out Palestinians in “the territories.”
“Because that’s the reality we live in, it’s us or them, and it has to be them,” Weinstein said.
He added that Israelis want “full-scale war.”
