well yeah most of its operating software was derived from opensource projects, but capitalists exploited those opensource project without giving the tinest bit back, so…
For a while there, the Darwin OS was open source.
“It’s better to be a pirate than join the navy” - Steve Jobs
If you want to talk about Apple specifically, then consider this. When they began making popular tech like MacBooks and Ipods, they justified the prices by giving free warranties. They would replace or repair any device at no extra cost of the consumer. Well, they stopped doing that and then wanted you to pay an annual fee to get the same service. Then they did away with that and now it’s pay per repair or replacement and the prices went up instead of down. My theory is that was their business target in the first place. Get their products wide spread, and then pull rug out from under the consumer. To me, Apple is the best example of capitalism
AppleCare still exists. So this is misinformation.
And just as an anecdote, I have not felt like Apple has ever “pulled the rug out” on me and I’m an Apple product consumer. Are you?
That’s simply not true. Apple still has the same one year limited warranty they had when iPods were released. Steve Jobs justified the higher premium because you were getting “the store in the box,” referring to the in-store troubleshooting and educational support at no extra cost.
Source: worked for Apple for over a decade
What the hell is a store in a box?? Without cool aid it doesn’t make sense
This isn’t really true.
Apple, at least here in the UK, give a 1 year warranty as is the law and anything repairs that need doing that are not the fault of the consumer (ie dropping and breaking the screen) are covered under this warranty. Furthermore, if there is a problem with a line of products then they will extend the warranties to cover that issue for a longer period of time.
You can pay to have AppleCare+ which will extend this warranty and add on accidental damage too.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to shit on Apple without having to make up new ones.
Also, iPhones are a lot cheaper than they were a few years ago and they’re cheaper than their Samsung counterparts when comparing Pro vs Pro, etc.
Source: Worked for Apple for 3+ years and I’ve consumed many of their products, although I now only have an iPhone. For what it’s worth MacOS is infinitely better than windows.
MacOS is infinitely better than windows.
Yeah, no. Not even close. If nothing else, window management on MacOS is a fucking joke. The only thing that makes it less shitty is 3 party apps like rectanglesapp.
The settings menu is a fucking joke and laid out by the dumbest motherfuckers you’ve never met.
It prioritizes wifi above Ethernet.
The list goes on and on and on. MacOS is a messy hodgepodge of shit that barely works.
Windows has a lot of issues too, but thankfully, they are always fixable or have a workaround. In many cases, you have zero recourse on MacOS and if you don’t like it you can send an angry email to Mr tim apple.
Applecare is still around so you’re wrong already.
Look, Apple’s done some shitty stuff and as an iPhone and MacBook owner I won’t deny it. Every company right now is desperately trying to find ways to charge more for less because there aren’t really any corners left to cut for capitalism to pump stock numbers up but infinite growth is still making its usual demands.
Apple products are still way more robust than the competition and they’re way ahead on things like ARM and making OSs that aren’t complete trash(Windows is a worthless piece of shit and always has been, even at its best. I own and regularly use a self-built gaming PC, so I experience it all the time). I’ll buy their products because their shit actually works and can be relied on. Plus I was able to finance my laptop at 0% and honestly the price I paid for my 14” MacBook Pro was comparable to what I would have paid for the same tier back in 2010 when I got my first MacBook so honestly, with inflation and all, it was surprisingly affordable(it was still really expensive, I won’t lie).
Anyhow it kinda sounds like you don’y have much experience with these products or haven’t learned from your experiences with them and just want to ride that bandwagon. Look into the awful shit Samsung has been doing or how expensive some of the other Android options are and you’ll see that this goes way beyond your specific hate of “the evil fruit company”. Capitalism is just rotten everywhere.
Ya know when you immediately start with condescension, I give no fucks what you have to say
All modern devices are made using one form of slave labor or another.
https://ethical.net/technology/the-slavery-supported-the-device-in-your-pocket/
I think that’s what they must when they say “built by capitalism.”
I mean, any other usage would be utterly ridiculous. So, that must be what they mean.
It literally is. The idea I’ve seen around is that these things couldn’t be built without someone getting the short end of the stick. They also believe that no one would innovate without a profit motive. These people genuinely believe that the only other option is flipping entirely over to that garbage attempt the soviets made at communism. They fundamentally cannot comprehend the idea of nuance and so “capitalism is the only idea that works”.
We know that CEO wages are insane and that the reason we can’t afford stuff is our stagnant pay. We know that people innovate for their own curiousity all the time. We know that capitalism actually hates innovation because it means retooling and spending money on R&D and we’ve seen it fight progress basically at every turn or watched it buy up competition so it wouldn’t have to any real work.
So yea, you’re right.
For profit universities. In the states at least. Where students go into lifetime debt and their work is profited from. Occasionally they get a prize and pat on the head.
Then they spend their lives working for companies that make massive profits off their ideas. If they’re very very lucky, some people might learn their names and what they did before they die, but that almost never happens.
It’s worse. Public universities that by definition are not for profit. And then all the other things you mentioned.
I find it hard to believe that a university of any kind in America is not motivated monetarily
Well, it’s always “humans made this”.
I think it’s trivial to argue that without capitalism we would not have iPhones, they are the product of the desire to please a market to make a lot of money.
If the driver was “I want to build something useful for my fellow humans” that wouldn’t likely trend toward an elitist redundant unsustainable device built on the exploitation of cheap labor.
The conversation was clearly more developed here so I resubmitted it :|
Coming back to your point, I’m not being obtuse, a smartphone is not as life changing (for the better) when it comes down to your daily life.
I was born without one, I can relate to the experiences my parents had, and none of it screams “back in the days life was radically different”.
Sure you’d go to places to purchase object you can touch and your brain wasn’t melted by being exposed from an early age to Tiktok.
Coming back to your point, I’m not being obtuse, a smartphone is not as life changing (for the better) when it comes down to your daily life.
My peep, smartphones redefined the way humans go about the world and in turn how the world is structured. What the hell are you on about? As someone who lived even without internet, I can assure you that the way we handled the world was indeed massively fucking different in so many ways, I wouldn’t even know where to begin to explain. The smartphone is as impactful, if not more than the telephone, the radio and the television. All of those techs literally reshaped the world and our social interactions.
Sure you’d go to places to purchase object you can touch and your brain wasn’t melted by being exposed from an early age to Tiktok.
Do you know how much the world changed because people don’t “go to places”? Because they text instead of phoning? Because they can record everything at any time? Because they don’t carry a fuckton of devices, paper and other support tools? You literally don’t know what you’re taking about. And yes, impact to society includes the bad stuff as well.
Okay, sure, I’ll play devil’s advocate. The engineering that goes into a single iPhone is unfathomable. It would take an entire lifetime of study to even try to produce something close.
But Apple pays about a jillion engineers about a jillion dollars each, and so they’re able to create new iPhones every year or so. That was 100% powered by capitalism.
Yeah, workers physically put the pieces together. Do you think any of them could design an iPhone without any help or reference? Or a single body to tie it all together?
It’s coming from someone who dedicated their entire life to being smarter than you or me about electronics.
Go on. Give your opinion.
… It’s coming from the culmination of, like 5 decades of absurdly educated engineering. If you want to call them workers, then sure.
They weren’t workers? is this “absurdly educated engineering” like a magic ghost inhabiting the halls of Apple HQ? Is this “engineering” in the room with us right now?
Seriously, I fail to grasp the point you’re trying to make here…
Eventually the money to start the process comes from somewhere like a bank or private loans. Sure, the workers could fund the venture by themselves, but nobody wants to take that kind of risk. Taking a job at a company is basically paying money to avoid risk.
Workers take plenty of risk to change jobs, homes, and even countries for a new job. The risks they take are comparatively much more significant than a venture of a millionaire or billionaire capitalist. That risk is somehow not rewarded under capitalism. Not to mention that the capitalist “risk” is nothing more than a scare tactic
That aside, someone “putting in money” doesn’t mean they were useful and deserve any credit. It just means that you have an unjust system where the actual innovators have to agree to be exploited to survive.
Entry to the market is a bigger obstacle than risk. You can’t just make a phone at home from scraps. You need an army of workers and machines and supply chains and business relationships and licenses.
Engineers are workers. Well paid yes, but you’re going against the wrong people, they’re not capitalists and don’t make the decisions that matter.
Then, why do you think an a economy post capitalist wouldn’t be able to develop smart phones? Do you think we’d return to feudalism and the world would devolve into dark ages and all the scientific knowledge would disappear?
Yea we can still innovate without capitalism, though, and even in spite of it people still develope things just for the fun of it. They even create non-profits designed around making things accessible and writing standards to help keep everyone organized. Fuck, Linux distros are free, dude. Literally this post points out that the people working on the software and the design are also of the working class and you’ve glossed over that.
Capitalism is the system which puts capital first. It a system whereby having money is having power and not having money is a death sentence. It is a system that that says equates your current monetary value with your value to society and which suppresses anything that cannot be monetized. So many people can’t even have hobbies anymore without some feeling of guilt and weird conservatives won’t stop shitting on the arts like they’re so broken as people they no longer understand the concept of enjoyment or living for more than just producing stock value.
Under a system that focuses on making sure people are cared for you can still have private business. A system which has safety nets and offers free education, healthcare, and basic utilities is one in which the ordinary person is free to live their life instead of worrying about losing their job and their employment-connected health insurance.
You’re not playing devil’s advocate by ignoring important details, you’re just being weird and wrong. Also no one fucking asked, anyway.
I don’t disagree with any single point that you’ve made. I agree with most of them.
But you mentioned linux. Tell me again, Linus Torvald, was he employed under a capitalist country when he created linux? How about most of its contributors?
Your point is easily defeated. Please make a better argument.
You can’t genuinely believe that that’s an argument for why mine has been “defeated”?
It took my two seconds to verify that Linus Torvald did his work with Linux on his own time and at university, not in the pursuit of capital. Since his childhood he has simply found joy in computers and does these things because he genuinely wants to. He worked at Transmeta for six years afterwards and then left to go work for one of the non-profits that eventually became the non-profit Linux Foundation. His whole fucking shtick is that the software should be open-source.
He’s also from Finland, a country well know to prioritize its citizens’ well-being. That care allows citizens to pursue their goals with a level of safety that capitalism cannot offer.
You’re either a weird, pathetic troll and/or unfathomably stupid. Either way this conversation isn’t going to get us anywhere.
Socialism was made under capitalism.
Using the same logic, that would make socialism powered by capitalism. Well, that, climate breakdown and school shootings: all powered by capitalism.
Edit: clearly were only allowed to use that “logic” on things that people believe will make capitalism look good.
What. A. Surprise…
