Palestine supporters are stupid enough to not see that is 1000x worse for them

I don’t think this is a constructive way of looking at the situation. After all, being quiet about Netanyahu’s abuses wasn’t a winning strategy either. Besides, being scared of Israeli lobbying automatically makes you a bad leader.

Regular people don’t live reading obscure threads on Lemmy so I’m 100% sure that the effects of the comments posted by tankies here are negligible.

My point is that you can’t lose against the worst human being twice and keep blaming the electorate. If they want to lead, the dems have to stand for something instead of complaining about turnout or in general blaming anyone else but themselves. It was THEIR job to get out the vote.

Trump is a monumental POS but the dems prefer to cater to the people who voted for him instead of the people who want legitimate pro-working-class policies.

Or maybe, like they normally do, the Democrats failed to rally their base to vote, or didn’t give them enough incentive to get out and vote.

Biden had 4 years to make meaningful progress for the American people, and whether or not he did is irrelevant because Americans don’t feel better off than 4 years ago. Democrats spent the last year screaming about the economy doing amazing, while ignoring all of the polls showing Americans don’t feel that way.

Democrats spent the last year sending weapons shipment after weapons shipment to Israel to bomb Palestinian children, despite polls showing the majority of Americans wanted contingencies on the shipments. And the Democrats instead lectured their constituents about how what they’re seeing and hearing isn’t actually what it is, and it’ll be worse with the other guy!

Democrats spent the last 4 years doing nothing but try to return to the same status quo that isn’t working for the average American anymore. Biden’s hubris took the decision out of the people’s hands, and we were given a candidate we didn’t choose and told to shut up and like it because “fAsCiSm.”

Well, congratulations Democrat Party, we fell to fascism because that’s obviously a better alternative than actually putting forward progressive policies. And whether you like to hear it or not, the Republican voter supporting this fascist movement is doing so because they want change in this country too.

Only difference being, the Republicans are actually “progressing” their party along like their constituents want. Maybe the Democrats should try listening to their constituents for once and, idk, see if that maybe works in their favor for once?

What exactly is wrong with what they said? At the end of the day, democrats support the genocide too. You can’t say “republicans will do it harder hurr durr” and expect people to vote for the one that still is for genocide, but is a little bit shy about it. The end result is the same - the Palestinian state will never exist and the people will be killed. There is no difference if it happens over a year or over three. So that issue is brushed aside, or is the cause of not voting at all.

Then you have the absolutely idiotic move to the right. Saying “the border wall is a good idea” as a democrat? Come the F on.

What belief, may I ask?

Look, you can check my older comments to understand where I’m coming from. I’m open to listening and perhaps we both can learn something from all of this.

And if they weren’t willing to choose the least bad option, I think that says more about the least bad option than it does about the worst option.

Okay so blame the arabs in Wisconsin. Got it. Now do Pennsylvania. Why did they go trump. Tell me more mr oracle.

The difference between them is you are never getting the votes that don’t give a shit about Palestine back from Trump. His voters don’t care. Democratic voters do. When both candidates have the exact same position (and “genocide harder or lighter” isn’t a difference in position, it’s still genocide) then the issue only causes people to not vote, or look at other policies. And then you add in alienating more democrats by going further right and copying their policies. The people who like them will still vote for the republican. The people liking democratic policies will cringe and step aside.

Yeah harris should have ran a better campaign with less genocide and more pro labor policies.

Yes, thank you for putting it better than me.

Especially Re: podcast hosts, I follow a couple of “progressive” podcasts and they showed their true colors very clearly when one day they were strongly shilling for Biden and admonishing any differing opinion. Then magically they changed tunes when the situation was inescapable. They came off as strongly disingenuous and spineless.

We can’t keep blaming other citizens like ourselves.

Fucking what? Donald Trump won the popular vote. We blame those people.

How about the left instead make compromises with reality instead?

Not sure if you noticed, but reality called and the Dems just lost. Turns out they can’t win after refusing to compromise with the left and going after center-right voters. The same shit happened in 2016, but Dems refuse to learn. And, as always, blame the “drama baby leftists who can’t accept reality”, while completely missing the irony.

Harris and Biden put billions of dollars into a renewable energy fund, and Harris was promising a 20 grand subsidy for first home buyers. It’s not nothing. Y’all just chose not to listen.

You’re trapped in a burning building.

A firefighter hacks the door down and reaches their hand out to pull you free and carry you outside.

And you ask “What’s in it for me?”

I truly don’t think you people grasp how meaningless all this text your wasting is.

This happened because people are stupid. That’s it. That’s the long and short of it. They have no, absolutely no concept whatsoever of how bad things are about to get. There’s no world where the citizenship understands what fascism is where Kamala needed to do anything different than she did.

At this point, I truly don’t think it matters. None of this shit matters. The problem is the people.

Everything you said has nothing to do with the left, they are basic as shit things that event center and center-right European parties would do. I mean, what does the sentence “did green energy” even mean to you? The US is one of the largest polluters per capita in the world, installing a few solar panels means jack shit. Starting to heavily invest in public transportation, putting forth serious proposals to reduce the use of plastic, etc. would just be a start.

Meanwhile, they were also running on an anti-migration platform, just not as bad as Trump - remember how Democrats were so proud of the fact Trump shot down a Dem proposal that would reduce immigration?

Also, remember when Obama was elected on an anti-war policy in 2008? He even won a Nobel Peace Prize! And remember how Trump was elected in 2016 on a “pull back troops from the Middle East policy”, standing opposite to “Hillary the Hawk”?

Meanwhile, while most of the world condemns Israels actions, and millions of people in the US protest the US involvement in the ongoing genocide, both candidates are in favor of supporting and giving weapons to Israel.

If your argument is “but Biden was so far left”, then you’re a perfect representation of what is wrong with the Dem party and the US in general.

Edit: I almost forgot this beautiful (\s) fucking cherry on top: Dick fucking Cheney endorsed the Dems. And you seriously wanna make the argument they couldn’t have gone more left?

I think you might be replying to the wrong person.

My excuse? Firstly, I’m from Europe, I can’t vote in American elections; secondly, I’m replying to people making excuses for why Kamala lost, perhaps you should direct your comment at them.

The ones who need to excuse themselves, in order, are: Republicans; their voters; and finally the Dems for not having primaries (twice), not running a winnable campaign, and trying to appeal to the center-right.

Same, the difference is i knew that distinction wouldnt bring people out. If you, I’m assuming, a committed voter were reluctant about voting for harris despite everything. What does that mean for people who are fairly indifferent to voting? 😞😭😞😭😞😭

In summary - all my grumpiness at the DNC and Kamala for ignoring the left again was still miles short of what would have propelled me to vote for Trump or enable a Trump win.

Yeah, as I said, even I though Kamala would win despite everything because Trump is… well, Trump, and I honestly did not think anywhere near this many people would vote for him again. If yesterday someone had told me he was going to win the popular vote, I would not have come anywhere close to believing them. It’s extremely depressing to see how many people still choose to vote for Trump and back him after everything he has done and said he was gonna do.

I voted for Kamala dipshit

Oh yeah, people are fucking stupid. Inflation started under Trump.

it really is that simple. inflation is a global problem and many Americans are so stupid that they think he can and will do anything about it.

😮‍💨 point to the biden policy that would please. Then point to the harris campaign platform stating how she’d fix it. In fact harris took steps to signal she wouldn’t fix it by not committing to Khan.

Neither candidate was going to fix it. So whats next in the list?

Yeah, but don’t tell them that or they’ll get upset

Like many things, trumpers are happy to believe it whether the logic is there or not.

I’ve seen real people I know personally, people with degrees and with jobs that affect people’s lives, honestly look forward to the lower gas prices and inflation if he were to get elected.

In think there’s just a lot of ignorance, and people not paying attention to real events and falling back to thinking that voting Republican means you support hard work and white people and saving money, while voting Democrat means you support tax & spend and love lazy minorities.

What in saying is that it probably doesn’t have much to do with Gaza. People voted on the economy.

The same thing. Voters wouldn’t have shown up because they didnt care and harris had jack shit for them or she actively suppressed their voices.

Lesser evil is a stick not a carrot. You dont get the lazy voters out with sticks. Trumps campaign was all carrots for his base.

You have 20+ million voters from 2020 missing. Where are they? Biden at least had positions in his campaign for the left last time. I was trlling everyone locally to get off their asses and vote regardless. Here i was trlling you political engage if obvious souls where harris was weak and instead of recognizing that hey not supporting something like a genocide is fairly trivial you stamped your feet and argued that we were undermining harris.

News flash: she undermined it herself. I got at least 100 harris people to the polls this year to counteract my jill vote. Not once did i try to get people to not to vote for harris. It was always ‘here are all your options, here is what is likely to happen here locally, and in other states.’

The arabs told you exactly what they were going to do and you didnt listen. I did. Harris told you exactly who she was in 2016/2020, and this campaign and you didnt listen. I did. When people tell you what they’re going to do believe them. But clearly you’re smarter than us russian trolls.

Cheers.

She should have never gone negative and stuck to positive messaging about how they had real plans to help real people.

The problem with that is that Democrats’ insistence on incrementalism in all things had destroyed their credibility when they say that they’ll help people. No, they’ll start some investigations, throw up a hurdle in their own path, gleefully announce that it’s insurmountable, and then scream that everyone who saw what they just did doesn’t know how government works.

She should have focused on courting Democrats instead of being all chummy with a Cheney.