Some interesting stuff here, including links to more studies showing similar results in different countries.
The summary is that the reason motorists break more laws is that speeding is so common.
I don’t think this is because motorists are all evil and cyclists are all saints. Probably, the reason motorists break speed limits is that it can be relatively difficult to keep cars below the speed limit. It’s all too easy to absentmindedly speed up. It’s also, perhaps becuase of this, widely seen as socially acceptable to break the speed limit (speaking anecdotally).
One interesting thing here, which may not surprise regular readers of Fuck Cars, is that better cycling infrastructure leads to less lawbreaking by cyclists. As is often the case, it’s the design of roads and cities that changes behaviour, not abstract appeals to road users to be sensible!
So, it appears that when giving everyone equal infrastructure, motorists are still awful at getting around.
The reason Dutch cyclists don’t break laws is that there’s little reason to. Their traffic signals work for cyclists, their paths work for cyclists, there’s no reason to speed, etc.
Compare that to most cities in North America, and “breaking the law” for a cyclist means not wanting to wait 10 minutes at the same red light because there aren’t any cars to trigger a change to green. Or riding on sidewalks because nobody feels safe on roads with semi-trucks and pickup trucks refusing to give them any space.
When motorists break the law, it’s because they are impatient or just don’t know how to drive. When cyclists do it, it’s to either be safe or because the infrastructure is so poor that it makes normal cycling behaviour seem like a crime.
There’s also a level of absurdity to cycling laws. E.g., in the UK if I:
- Approach a red light
- Dismount
- Wheel my bike just over the stop line
- Remount and cycle away
That’s legal. But! If I:
- Approach a red light
- Stay on my bike
- Cycle very slowly over the stop line
- Continue to cycle away
That’s a crime.
The ‘Stop on red’ rule was obviously designed for cars and then slapped onto bicycles, a category of vehicle for which it makes very little sense.
The ‘Stop on red’ rule was obviously designed for cars and then slapped onto bicycles, a category of vehicle for which it makes very little sense.
Proof: intersections of multi-use paths don’t have stop signs and don’t need them.
intersections of multi-use paths don’t have stop signs and don’t need them.
We have a few municipalities around here that are adding stop lights for cyclists where multiuse paths meet intersections (to control the cross rides).
It’s more of a safety thing, but I’ve almost been run over several times while crossing them on a WALK/BIKE green, since motorists really don’t care at all.
You will often get a motorist committing to a left turn going into the cross ride, and since they didn’t look first and didn’t give themselves any time before the oncoming traffic arrives, they’ll plow through the cross ride/cross-walk. To say that I see this happening all the time is not an exaggeration.
As a UK cyclist I can see that stopping at a red light definitely does make sense. I don’t want to hit pedestrians and other road users who have been given a green light to cross my path.
You’re no more dangerous cycling at 3kph than you are wheeling your bike at 3kph, but one of those things is illegal if you do it over a stop line, regardless of anything else you do once you’re over the stop line. That’s the absurdity.
I don’t get this. You slow down if you don’t want to hit people. You also have a set of eyes. Are people not able to go “person walking in front, let’s slow down and go behind them”. If it’s a wall of people, then of course you stop.
The study in the article is from Denmark though. They never mentioned Dutch cyclists.
it can be relatively difficult to keep your car under the speed limit
Hard disagree. This is like saying it’s difficult to stay off you phone while driving — it’s just a shitty habit that can be corrected.
It is in america. Roads are too wide and straight, which sends subtle signals that its safe to go faster than the speed limit.
This is especially bad on roads that have had their speed limit reduced without changing anything else.
I blame American road designers for speeding more, because we should be designing roads that reflect the speed we want them to drive.
Though the best solution to speeding is just removing cars, but I doubt that will happen.
https://youtu.be/bglWCuCMSWc?si=8786kjY70qqai4V2
Yes, drivers absolutely should be actively driving, but they don’t. I’ve watched how a lot of people drive over the years, and the vast majority of drivers aren’t actively checking their mirrors, and gauges every few seconds. Road designers have decades of data on how to subconsciously make us slow down. It won’t stop all speeding, but it will drastically reduce it in the US.
@frankPodmore@slrpnk.net One interesting thing here is that it seems that cyclists, whether breaking the law or sticking to it, are often doing so out of self-preservation. If you’re turning left at a busy junction with a bike lane, jumping the red might actually be safer than waiting for it to change. A good example of a perverse incentive!
Granted it’s not all the time, but I do agree that a lot of the time, the rule breaking is incentivized by cars’ problematic driving and not sharing the road well. If cars were on a whole more friendly with cyclists and knew the proper rules as well, it probably wouldn’t happen as often.
@pjhenry1216 I think the key thing is better cycling infrastructure. Most people would do almost anything to avoid hitting someone with their car, but it still happens all too often because of poorly designed roads
That would cause the biggest impact, but in the meantime I wish car drivers were just better educated about the rules of the road when a bicycle is present. I’m not even sure which is the easier goal honestly. Maybe better infrastructure is easier even if more expensive. Easier to change a road than it is to change people.
Granted it’s not all the time, but I do agree that a lot of the time, the rule breaking is incentivized by cars’ problematic driving and not sharing the road well.
I suspect it literally is all the time. If there were no cars, there would be no need for the rules in the first place.
If there were no cars, there’d be a hell of a lot more bikes. I’d still want rules. Like which side of the road one should be riding their bike, etc.
(Yes, this is me replying to this post on Mastodon. Didn’t realise that it would show up like this!)
we’ve got a new cycle lane with dedicated lights near me - though only activated by a beg-button.
except you can press the button sall you want ant it’ll stay on red all the time.
unfortunately due to the concrete separator i can’t nip over into the main lane and use that lane on green.
so i just have to run the red. almost every bike trip i make is lawbreaking for me.
Is that a dare?
I broke the speed limit on my bicycle once. For literally seconds before the speed limit was increased in the next road section XD
I’ve broken it a few times in my younger years when I could flex hard on my fixie in steep gearing.
I stopped trying after a motorist pulled out from a side street in front of me and I slammed into the side of his car at 60+kph. Completely destroyed the custom forks I had commissioned for the bike so I could run a disc brake specifically to avoid that happening :(
It’s nice to hear your exquisite taste in bikes. Sorry it went that way.
🙄 fuck cars!