183 points

That’s… a good argument. I never thought of it like that.

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13 points

Is it stealing if you don’t pay for the cinema? You don’t own anything new after.

Is it stealing if you don’t pay for your haircut? You don’t own anything new after.

Is it stealing if you don’t pay for your car service? You don’t own anything new after.

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28 points

In those three cases, you’re receiving a service (showing you the movie, cutting your hair and servicing your car), so yeah, you’re stealing their work, which is arguably much worse than stealing objects.

In contrast, copying a copy of a movie or a game or whatever without removing the original or even a copy of it is not stealing.

And before you chime in with “but future income!”, those profits are hypothetical, so even in the most uncharitable rational definition, you have stolen something that someone MIGHT have gotten.

Copying is not theft and you can’t steal something that doesn’t and might never exist.

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8 points

The gray area where I live is that streaming is not piracy. I didn’t pay for it, but I also didn’t retain a copy.

Putlocker and Wootly were my go-to spots in college because I wouldn’t get a piracy warning from my internet provider.

If there are better places these days, please let me know. I miss seeing new movies the same day they hit the digital marketplace

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-4 points

So the entertainment you receive watching the movie isn’t also a service?

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-4 points

I’m guessing you’re in favor of counterfeiting currency, then?

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27 points

That is actually, by law, NOT stealing, thats called fraud.

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8 points

You’re technically correct, the best kind of correct.

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5 points
*
Removed by mod
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22 points

This needs to clarify digital piracy (even though the term already implies that) so people stop comparing renting physical things and spaces to it.

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19 points

I would download a car if I could.

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12 points

Exactly. If I bought a movie on Amazon, and Amazon stops existing, do I receive a physical copy/the ability to download my media? I paid for it.

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17 points

The difference is that in your later two examples, a business lost something, their time / labor. If you took someones seat at the theater, there will be a disruption at the least, maybe the customer does not get their seat or you have to be kicked out or cleaned up after, but if you don’t disrupt anything or make a mess, you caused no harm whatsoever.

No one looses anything when someone copies a file without permission. The FBI and other propaganda sources would have you believe that media companies would make more money if you didn’t copy the file, there is no evidence of that, only evidence to the contrary, even so, if it were true, taking an action that causes someone to earn less money than if the action were not taken is not theft. If I open up a store, next to your store, and sell the kind of products you sell, you will make less money than if i don’t, but no person with any self respect would ever claim that I stole anything from you, except you, the angry store owner. The reality is that these laws and their associated propaganda exist because the wealthy ruling class is terrified of making slightly less money for their investors.

Think back to the moment you learned that copying was considered theft, you knew it was ridiculous at the time, but you’ve seen so many FBI warnings, and so much of your favorite youtubers whining about facebook videos that belong to them with more views than theirs, steeling their precious views, even though almost no one on earth watches videos on facebook and on youtube, and no one who knows and wants to support a creator would ever watch their content in a way that would instead support someone else who provided no new value. The reality is that the youtuber was never going to get any views from the audience of the facebook video if the facebook video didn’t exist, but because it did, many people followed the comment saying that the video was stolen right back to the original creator. Likewise the people who are pirating software or media are probably not going to buy it in any timeline, but now that they copied the content, they might promote it to people who will actually buy it, people who otherwise would not know about it.

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1 point

Think back to the moment you learned that copying was considered theft

Well copying is very broad… Plagiarism’s treatment as being both technically and morally wrong imo always makes sense. Plagiarism goes beyond copyright infringement though, since infringement only requires “use” of the material whereas plagiarism is passing it off as your own.

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9 points

You wouldn’t download a car

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6 points

I’d download you if I could.

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3 points

What about the CAD files and assembly instructions for a car?

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2 points

You even said it your last point. Those are services. We are talking about goods here.

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1 point

Yes, Captain obvious thanks for pointing out that a service and a product are different things. After all why would I pirate porn when fucking a hooker doesn’t get me anything new after?

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0 points

You have a new experience after the cinema, you have a new style after a haircut, and the car service argument is so stupid I refuse to even entertain it.

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2 points

You don’t get a new experience watching a pirated show or playing a pirated game?

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1 point

What’s the point of downloading a game if not to experience it?

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2 points

Not owning it is similar to paying to go to theater or cinema and you don’t own the thing either. I don’t see people complaining that they cannot take video in theaters.

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2 points
*

Is this for movies? Because you can always just buy the DVD lol. Then you would own it

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50 points

Even then, your rights are limited. You can’t show it publicly, or make a copy except for personal backup, for instance.

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21 points

Unskippable bullshit before you can even get the DVD to play cured me of my DVD buying habit.

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18 points

Not if you just buy a digital streaming version. Then they can take it back anytime they want.

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26 points

No, it’s the fact you don’t own a digital game. You are only licensed. This applies to steam games too.

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9 points

Ah i see. Good point then. Shame we won’t have the same kind of retro gaming scene as we do now in the future

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23 points

No, you don’t own the movie. You own the 2 cent piece of plastic it’s on but the movie itself is licensed, not owned. The piece of plastic is basically your license key, nothing more.

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11 points

No. Some things are streaming exclusive. Like Stranger Things and Glass Onion

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1 point

The more popular ones get DVD releases, but that’s pretty rare.

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87 points

internet piracy? i never ever would do such a thing, it is illegal. instead i will pay for 5 streaming services and never own anything. remember, you wouldn’t steal a car.

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8 points
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Deleted by creator
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3 points

…what kind of bear?

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1 point
Deleted by creator
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48 points

“Harry Potter is no longer available on this platform”

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35 points

The only thing I would (totally naively and magically) wish for is some kind of really well organized and curated time capsule mainly for movies and music preservation.

I don’t want all the music and movies for myself, I wouldn’t be able to watch/hear it all but I wish for anyone from any time in the future — to have a simple/legal option to just dig anything out, public domain or whatever will work best.

People have created some amazing gems.

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14 points
13 points

Well, yes. This exist — I am really grateful for that, but… This audio library now contains 15M positions. It is a big number, no doubt about it.

Then, Spotify has over 80M files in the library with around 4M podcasts.

Estimated existing music amount is unclear but around 90-200M and growing all the time.

And suddenly 15M is getting somehow small in terms of preserving, and this is with music only.

With movies I even remember some interviews with Tarantino and Nolan talking about how badly some movies are being mistreated, lost cuts, not even close to proper/safe long time storing, fires, accidents and so on…

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26 points

This statement feels so wrong yet also feels so correct. If companies can’t let ppl own what they paid they shouldn’t complain when ppl pirate.

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