We’ve known how to meaningfully address this for ages - with the side benefit of actually improving lives - and neither party is willing to pursue it as it lies outside partisan wedge-driving around various bans.
Bullshit. Democrats would be happy to try ANYTHING to solve this issue.
Republicans have blocked every avenue.
Do not both-sides this extremely one-sided issue.
Bullshit. Democrats would be happy to try ANYTHING to solve this issue.
And yet they’ve pushed literally nothing but various restrictions and bans focusing on firearms rather than attempting to address underlying root issues.
Do not both-sides this extremely one-sided issue.
Don’t pretend a failing of both parties is somehow only a failing of one.
As another poster highlighted, blue team doesn’t want to kill the golden goose.
As things stand, they have a perpetual wedge issue to capitalize on, they have no obligation to actually put up as voters are too willfully ignorant to actually hold them accountable, and they get to profit off blue-aligned media every time they sensationalize such a thing, all while not actually having to address the pesky class/inequality issues they depend on.
They have absolutely no incentive to change status quo.
Mass shootings make up a tiny albeit horrific number of gun injuries and deaths. Suicide is the top spot, domestic assault and other crimes are next, followed by accidents/negligent discharge, and way down at the bottom of the list is mass shooting. https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/ we need to focus on the whole issue. One thing is clear though, more guns is not the answer.
So that answer to suicide by guns would be to make people not want to kill themselves so much, maybe by making a less desperate world to live in, such as by ending capitalism – but you instead just want to make a statistic not look as bad by making suicide less efficient?
You’re being obtuse and not making a good faith argument so I refuse to give a substantive response.
I’d argue the quantity of firearms is largely irrelevant unless you only care the thing was done by firearm.
Guns are very effective at killing, something like 5% of people attempting suicide by gun are unsuccessful. Other methods have a much higher rate of survival. Taking the guns out of the equation means more lives saved.
I don’t see anything in the article that suggests the new office will only focus on mass shootings. While identifying and treating potential mass shooters would be great, they only account for a small percentage of overall gun deaths.
Do you believe the overall pressures toward non-mass firearm violence are so different as to not overlap?
I do not.
Maybe the pressures are the same, but that has nothing to do with how you prevent him violence. Your article is super specific to mass shootings, and this office, as far as we can tell, is about all gun violence.
You’re linking an article about a study funded by Biden’s justice department and the other poster is right about your both sides comments
The OPs article is about an office Biden is creating for this exact type of research too.
I understand the frustration. I have a 13 year old who his mom has tucked away in gun loving rural America.
But your both sidesisms are not helpful.
You’re linking an article about a study funded by Biden’s justice department and the other poster is right about your both sides comments.
Care to support that?
The OPs article is about an office Biden is creating for this exact type of research too.
Right - Biden, of AR-ban fame.
It remains to be seen whether or not this office will support any research or just parrot Everytown.
I understand the frustration. I have a 13 year old who his mom has tucked away in gun loving rural America.
But your both sidesisms are not helpful.
I don’t believe you do, given your refusal to hold blue team accountable for their failings here in doing anything beyond focusing on symptoms. I’d argue such willful partisan blindness is less helpful.
Funded by the National Institute of Justice, the research arm of the Department of Justice
From the article you posted.
The rest is math. They decided to do the project in 2019. Grants take anywhere from 8-20 months to get funded. It also takes time to put together the application.
Biden’s Justice department funded this research. And since you’re being rude, for ages was clearly bullshit too. You linked an article talking about research that was conceived in 2019.
How about you allow the CDC to register official statistics on gun deaths and injuries?
With that data you can then at least start to shut-the-fuck-up-bitch-slap any gun advocate that claims that “arming teachers is the solution” and work on actual measures that will solve this issue
Here’s the trick… the Nashville shooter had no criminal record and bought the guns 100% legally. There is no gun restriction that would block someone who passes the background check from buying a gun.
BUT:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Nashville_school_shooting
“Hale was under care for an emotional disorder and had legally purchased seven firearms, including three recovered from the shooting scene, between October 2020 and June 2022.[1]”
If someone is under psychological care, should that be allowed to pop up on a background check? Maybe not as an instant disqualification the way a court ordered commitment or conviction would, but as an advisory note? Leave it to the discretion of the firearms seller? “By the way, this person is undergoing psych care, you could be held liable if they use this firearm in a crime.” That kind of thing?
Because right now, the only stuff that shows up on the background check are things that were ruled on by a judge, and sometimes not even all of those.
For example:
The guy who shot up Michigan State University:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Michigan_State_University_shooting
“McRae was arrested in June 2019 for carrying a weapon without a concealed pistol license.[38] Initially charged with a felony, he pleaded guilty to misdemeanor unlawful possession of a loaded firearm as part of a plea agreement in November 2019.[39] He was originally sentenced to twelve months’ probation, which was later extended to 18 months, and in May 2021, he was discharged from probation.[35] Because McRae was not convicted of a felony, his ban on possessing weapons ended with the end of his probation.[40]”
Arrested for a felony gun charge, pled out to a misdemeanor, did his time, did his probation, was allowed to buy guns again.
Had he been convicted of the felony, he would have been blocked from owning a gun. The misdemeanor was not a barrier and did not appear on the background check.
Maybe it should have? Maybe ANY gun charges, felony OR misdemeanor should bar you from gun ownership?
Stopping people in therapy from owning guns is a good way to stop people from getting mental health care.
And anyone who has therapy billed to insurance has a mental health diagnosis. That’s just the nature of healthcare billing in the U.S.
While I like your idea, also consider the adverse impact: people will sometimes not treat their mental disorders anymore because they could pop up in a background check.
There has to be some more nuance to this. I didn’t study law though,so idk how to make it better.
Yeah, I don’t know how to make it better either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But when you start looking at the shooters who had documented mental health issues that never showed up on background checks, it gets a little scary.
Right now, it only counts for the background check if it goes through a Judge.
So when the Jacksonville shooter had an involuntary mental health hold under Florida’s Baker act, that didn’t stop him from later buying the guns completely legally:
Same with the Buffalo shooter:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Buffalo_shooting
“In June 2021, Gendron had been investigated for threatening other students at his high school by the police in Broome County.[20][58][64] A teacher had asked him about his plans after the school year, and he responded, “I want to murder and commit suicide.”[65] He was referred to a hospital for mental health evaluation and counseling but was released after being held for a day and a half.[20][64][66]”
Same with the Parkland shooter:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkland_high_school_shooting
“The Florida Department of Children and Families investigated him in September 2016 for Snapchat posts in which he cut both his arms and said he planned to buy a gun. At this time, a school resource officer suggested[94] he undergo an involuntary psychiatric examination under the provisions of the Baker Act. Two guidance counselors agreed, but a mental institution did not.[95] State investigators reported he had depression, autism, and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). However Psychologist Frederick M. Kravitz later testified that Cruz was never diagnosed with autism.[96] In their assessment, they concluded he was “at low risk of harming himself or others”.[97] He had previously received mental health treatment, but had not received treatment in the year leading up to the shooting.[98]”
These guys have quite a few suggestions meant to address prevention up through mitigation.
Maybe ANY gun charges, felony OR misdemeanor should bar you from gun ownership?
In general I’m not opposed, but I think that needs to come with some sort major reform to make our gun laws more consistent across the country, because currently there can be situations where you can be legally carrying a firearm in accordance with all of your state laws, but make a wrong turn or miss your exit and cross state lines and you’re technically committing a felony because the laws are different in that state. Then you’re just a burned out tail light away from prison time if you get pulled over and the cop finds out you have a gun.
Not that it’s a super common situation, but it’s not totally outlandish either, and I don’t think that’s exactly the kind of person we want to punish with these laws, especially since those are the sort of thing that you know would be enforced inconsistently- the white guy gets directions back to his home state and the nearest AutoZone to fix his tail light and sent on his way, and the black guy gets arrested on the spot (if not tazed, beaten, or shot)
That’s absolutely true and something I think about when I leave the house.
I live in Portland, Oregon which is just a river and a bridge away from Vancouver, Washington.
I have a concealed carry permit for Oregon, but Oregon and Washington don’t have laws for reciprocity.
So my carrying concealed in Oregon is perfectly legal, but would get me in trouble in Washington and vice versa.
So it’s contingent on me, the gun owner, to be aware of the laws and remain in compliance. Mostly going “Do I need to go to Vancouver today?” If yes, leave the gun at home.
From my personal experience, I live near Philly, which is similarly a river and a bridge away from NJ, where gun laws are drastically different. I don’t drive in the city super often, and there are some real doozies of confusing intersections, at least one of them is right by a bridge to Jersey, so once or twice I’ve gotten stuck in the wrong lane because city traffic sucks and no one would let me change lanes, and so I had to make a quick detour into the garden state, find somewhere to turn around and head back to the city of brotherly love. At no point was “go to Jersey” on my itinerary, and yet it happened.
I don’t carry a gun, but if I did that would put me in a potential bad position. As it is, I can take that detour to Jersey with impunity and only be out a few minutes of my time and maybe a couple bucks in tolls and gas rather than make some unsafe turns and lane changes trying to stay on the PA side of the river. If I did carry a gun though, that becomes a matter of weighing the risk of a potential felony in Jersey against the risk of driving like an unsafe asshole in PA. That’s obviously kind of a shitty choice I’d rather not have to make.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
It’s a move long sought by gun-control activists, who have been privately advocating for such an office for years and it comes as hopes of additional gun reform legislation seem unlikely.
Murphy has been a leading proponent of gun control legislation since the 2012 mass shooting at an elementary school in Sandy Hook, Conn., that killed 20 children and six adults.
The new office is expected to be led by Stefanie Feldman, currently White House staff secretary, who has worked on policy issues with Biden for more than a decade.
Reports about the announcement were praised by advocates like David Hogg, who co-founded March For Our Lives after a mass shooting at his high school in Parkland, Fla. five years ago.
Advocates say Biden’s new announcement helps show he is willing to act unilaterally on an issue important to young voters – at a time when he needs to energize this crucial voting bloc ahead of the 2024 presidential election.
“We need a White House team to focus on this issue on a daily basis,” said Murray, chair of the Newtown Action Alliance, a grassroots organization started after the shooting.
The original article contains 657 words, the summary contains 190 words. Saved 71%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
You know what’s a good way to prevent shootings? People not having guns. You guys in the US should try that sometimes…
OR…we could actually tackle the problem at it’s core and create meaningful changes that would curb the violence over all without even touching guns:
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Ending the War on Drugs
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Ending Qualified immunity
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Properly funding our schools and not just rich white suburb schools.
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Build more schools and hire more teachers for proper pay so the class room sizes aren’t 30-40 kids for one teacher.
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Single Payer healthcare
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UBI (at least start talking about it) once AI takes over most of the blue collar jobs.
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End for profit prisons
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Enforce the laws already on the books
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Make sure there are safety nets for poor families so the kids don’t turn to violence/gangs to survive.
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Increase the minimum wage
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Recreate our mental healthcare so kids don’t turn to the internet for support. And to help veterans not end up as a suicide number.
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Actively make a law to solidify Pro-choice rights. More unwanted children do not help our situation.
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Banning Insider Trading for Congress
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Term limits
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Ranked Choice Voting so we can move away from a 2 party system
Very good, very nicely done list. Add to it strict gun control and it will be very close to perfect
Yea gun control isn’t solving shit. We don’t have a gun problem we have a society one…mexico has some of the strictest gun control out there but tons of deaths. Same with Brazil… it’s society.
Or we could just touch guns instead of pretending we only need to completely fix every aspect of our society instead.
450+ million firearms. When they effectively banned firearms in Australia…60% was the turn in rate. You know how many millions will be left? Which the majority will stay in the crimals hands? And that’s if 60% handed them in. It’s not happening
I wish you the best of luck in addressing that symptom in a society where such bans aren’t commonly-supported, where the law isn’t conducive to such, where there’s such an incredible established base of ownership, and where “fuck the government and/or police” is the prevailing theme.
By all means, when you’ve discovered some way of meaningfully and feaaibly surmounting these, share with the class. You’ll be the first to have done so.
Meanwhile, the rest of us will focus on the root issues - the pressures toward violence - rather than only caring someone decided to use a rifle to when finally pushed to the brink.
Ending the War on Drugs
Sure. So do you mean fully legalizing all drugs for recreational use? Or just not cracking down on pot? Or something in between? I’d want to know exactly what you mean by this one, in detail.
Ending Qualified immunity
Disagree. Dramatically limit Qualified Immunity, but don’t eliminate it entirely. Sometimes violating a law is required in the process of enforcing other laws. So, only extend qualified immunity as far as the officer in question can prove to a jury that the officer’s violation was actually required for law enforcement.
Properly funding our schools and not just rich white suburb schools.
Since schools are run at the state level, the simplest way to do this would be to pool all the tax revenue ear marked for schools at the state level and distribute based on student population. Something like $X + $Y/student, as some costs are basically fixed but others directly scale with student body size.
Build more schools and hire more teachers for proper pay so the class room sizes aren’t 30-40 kids for one teacher.
The previous item would probably directly fix this for the worst outliers.
Single Payer healthcare
Obvious. Sure, it’ll raise everyone’s taxes but well implemented it would raise everyone’s taxes by less than what they are already paying for insurance + copays. The rough part would be when it first happens, as a bunch of people who have been avoiding medical care that wasn’t going to immediately kill them for financial reasons flood the system in the first months under it.
UBI (at least start talking about it) once AI takes over most of the blue collar jobs.
This is one of those things where it, something very like it, or some drastic change in the entire economic system is going to happen, and it would probably be better for everyone if it was well thought out. I’m personally fond of the idea of UBI + single payer healthcare, removing most other forms of public assistance aside from a few narrowly targeted programs (single payer eliminates most of your health care government programs, UBI replaces at least SNAP and TANF, etc). Then, eliminate the minimum wage, replacing it with a maximium wage (essentially the total compensation of the highest compensated employee must be no more than X% of the median employee or Y% of the lowest paid employee, whichever is lower - the C-suite can’t get a raise without the workers getting one too).
End for profit prisons
Another obvious one.
Enforce the laws already on the books
Your literal first item is specifically about not enforcing laws already on the books, and the second is about limiting what an officer can do to enforce the laws already on the books. I assume you have specific laws in mind with this item?
Make sure there are safety nets for poor families so the kids don’t turn to violence/gangs to survive.
UBI/single payer would already solve this.
Increase the minimum wage
This is very much a choose one or the other sort of thing - do you want UBI or a high minimum wage? Because they solve the same problem, and the UBI solution also doesn’t indirectly harm people who were making more than the new minimum wage but not dramatically more.
Actively make a law to solidify Pro-choice rights. More unwanted children do not help our situation.
This should have been done 40 years ago. Roe was a shoddy decision from a legal standpoint. While I’m pro-choice from a policy standpoint, Roe was never more than a band-aid and should never have been treated as more than a band-aid.
Banning Insider Trading for Congress
Another obvious one. Though that would make them easier to bribe, so that might require additional enforcement. Maybe make them keep their assets in a blind trust while holding office.
Term limits
For who? Everyone? Just Senate? Just the House? All of Congress? SCOTUS? How many terms? This is one of those things where a lot of details are sorely needed.
Ranked Choice Voting so we can move away from a 2 party system
Sure. Either Ranked Choice, Preference, or something else that approximates the Condorcet winner.
This is all pretty typical progressive policy positions but out of the entire list only 2-3 are actually about gun violence. No amount of term limits, ranked choice voting, or cracking down on Congressional insider trading is going to impact gun violence, for example.
I started reading your comment expecting to disagree with a lot of what you said but ended up doing the opposite. You seem like an intelligent person. Maximum wage in particular is something I’ve never heard of but seems good in theory. I could see this being easily circumvented by corporations just registering their different departments as their own businesses though.
Ok… what do you tell the parents of children that will get killed in the meantime? Because your solution is a good way to solve the issue in 30 years.
Will they? How likely is a parent to actually have to have that discussion?
None of this changes the mentally ills right to go shoot up a school,office,building or anything.
They do, however, provide the necessary institutions to reduce pressures and otherwise provide de-escalation options preventing those individuals from wanting to “go shoot up a school,office,building or anything”.
That would be the entire point to addressing the actual underlying issues.
It’s also talks like this (or rather the threat of this) that got Trump elected. Guns in America are not going away.
That’s just idiots being idiots and an election system that doesn’t make sense.
Gun owners that are dumb enough to make gun ownership their only compass to decide who to vote for even if it goes against their general best interests would have voted Republican no matter who was there as a candidate.
In the meantime here’s reality when you’re the country with the most guns/people
Gun owners that are dumb enough to make gun ownership their only compass to decide who to vote for even if it goes against their general best interests would have voted Republican no matter who was there as a candidate.
There are a lot of single issue voters out there, who will vote for whoever takes their stance on their one issue regardless of anything else.
Frankly, this is one Democrats need to drop - any bill they might pass is either a violation of citizen’s constitutional rights or isn’t going to do much to curb actual gun violence. At the same time “Democrats want to take away your constitutional right to bare arms” is one of the easiest wedges to draw people to vote for ever-shittier Republicans. And most of the people doing the shooting don’t particularly care if their gun is owned legally or not.
You’re preaching to the choir. But that doesn’t change anything. Those idiots are a massive number of voters, and they were willing to elect an obvious terrible presidential candidate because of the threat of losing their guns.
Even if democrats wanted this, there is literally no path we could take towards this. So saying, “get rid of your guns and you won’t have a problem” is the least helpful thing somebody could say.
Yes please use the GVA as a source of truth…NPR and Mother Jones both called out that site as bullshit.
