I can’t be the only one who absolutely hates the idea of a particle having two states at once, right? Is it just a personal thing or is it tied somehow to the fact that autistic people generally have more binary thinking?
Forgive me if it’s a stupid question. I’m still trying to figure out how this all works and whether I’m autistic or not.
It’s probably not just because you’re autistic. Quantum states are a little mind-blowing. But I do like the implication that I get to determine what’s “real” because the quantum universe doesn’t collapse into a single state until my consciousness interacts with it.
There is absolutely no evidence that consciousness causes wavefunction collapse (that is, if wavefunction collapse even happens at all, but that is a different discussion entirely).
Wasn’t it something about the information about the state being recorded?
It’s been a while since I last read up on any of this but I’d be surprised if the double slit experiment for example showed wave behavior just because the results of the detector weren’t shown to humans.
Literally every source suggests that the wave function collapses due to being observed. Unless you’re a Nobel-winning physicist, it’s unclear how you are an authority whose opinion matters.
Literally every source suggests that the wave function collapses due to being observed.
This claim that every source suggests that the wave function collapses due to being observed by a conscious being, and only by observation by a conscious being (which is presumably what you meant given the original context) is blatantly false. Give me a single reputable source that makes such a claim of consciousness causing collapse as anything other than a statement of (minority) interpretation.
Unless you’re a Nobel-winning physicist, it’s unclear how you are an authority whose opinion matters.
This is insulting. You are ludicrously claiming that expert opinion agrees unanimously that consciousness causes collapse (despite it actually being seen as a minority view by the community), yet have the audacity to say that my opinion on the matter is useless, despite the fact that I am a senior physics/mathematics double major at a major university with a respected physics program (and which includes multiple Nobel laureates in physics, since you mentioned it). I have already taken both undergraduate quantum mechanics courses as a junior; moreover, I currently only have one more physics course (along with several more math courses and one more general education requirement) required to graduate.
Obviously, this does not make me an expert on the topic in any sense whatsoever, but I think you are in no position to suggest my opinion is useless.
But I do like the implication that I get to determine what’s “real” because the quantum universe doesn’t collapse into a single state until my consciousness interacts with it.
To get right to the point, the idea of consciousness causing collapse is a minority interpretation of quantum mechanics (one that was originally conceived more as a hypothetical alternative interpretation without full seriousness being given to it in its own right) that has been given undue credit in the public eye by the dishonest purveyors of quantum mysticism (like Deepak Chopra) who confidently attribute supernatural attributes to quantum theory with neither any explanation nor even the simplest indication of understanding of even the simplest of an introduction to the topic, let alone any authority on the topic. The part of your comment, “I get to determine what’s ‘real’”, seems to indicate your familiarity with quantum mysticism beyond just the idea of consciousness causing collapse.
NO, there is absolutely no evidence of any fundamental role of consciousness in quantum mechanics, but you may have been mislead into believing there is. If you have any such credible experimental evidence of consciousness causing collapse, you would be the first to provide such.
If you have any source with credible evidence of consciousness causing collapse, I would like to see it.
Even if it were a matter of opinion among experts, the position that consciousness causes collapse is hardly a common one, despite your attempt at claiming the contrary.
Don’t worry! Quantum Mechanics a scientific model we use to understand and work with reality, not reality itself.
The difference may seem subtle, but it is important. E.g. my bank account represents my money. At some point it may have a negative amount on it. I could model this as I own anti-money that obliterate real money when put in the same account. I can have a perfectly functioning personal economy with this interpretation. But in reality, it’s the bank having to cover some transactions for me when they shouldn’t have and are expecting I cover it with a deposit.
(Though I could probably ask for funding for a large currency collider to search for for the anti-money particle.)
The quantum model has many interpretations as to what underlying reality it may model. Some scientists like the “many worlds” interpretation where a particle is in one state in one universe and another state in another universe - at some point reality branches and one version of you continue in each universe (I think it’s silly). What you are describing is the “Copenhagen interpretation” which is popular but many scientists reject it. Some scientists don’t want to interpret reality from the model and just work with the math as math.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-manyworlds/
Okay, thank you! My first introduction to quantum mechanics was in a magazine when I was like 11 and they used the cat analogy and I’ve been confused ever since! I was just sitting there thinking, “But, the cat is only one or the other. It doesn’t matter whether you look at it. There’s no magic going on. It’s just random chance, right?”
(Maybe the fact that I was even wondering how quantum mechanics works at age eleven could be a sign that I’m autistic. Idk lol)
Haha, yes. The cat analogy was created intentionally to demonstrate that the Copenhagen Interpretation was ludicrous. Media, however, just… ran with it because it sounded cool.
It’s a good sign that you found it annoying. Erwin Schrödinger would be proud.
As for autistic, the resources in the sidebar may help you discover more.
Cool! I knew I wasn’t crazy! What do you think of the RAADS-R test? That’s the one I’ve taken and I got a score of 156 but I don’t quite trust tests as I can generally tell which way a question will sway the result and so I start doubting the validity of my answers.
Quantum mechanics doesn’t have “particles”, it has “quanta”. They’re fundamentally different things. Your intuition about particles does not apply to quanta.
Think of light. You can shine a red light and a blue light on a surface at the same time. Even with a purely classical vew this gets modeled as a superposition (addition) of the intensities. That’s still wrong for how quantum superpositions work, those are adding the probability density functions of a propersty of the quanta, not the properties directly. But it’s closer.
I like to think of it in this way. They have a mathematical model of a thing which works by supposing the thing is in two states at once as long as its true state has not been determined. That just means that it is actually irrelevant what state a thing is/was in, or if the thing even exists/existed (!), as long as it didn’t interact with anything (or is being observed which implies an interaction).
Does the moon exist when you turn your back at it and close your eyes? --> It might not, and it would not make a difference if it didn’t.
