I can’t be the only one who absolutely hates the idea of a particle having two states at once, right? Is it just a personal thing or is it tied somehow to the fact that autistic people generally have more binary thinking?
Forgive me if it’s a stupid question. I’m still trying to figure out how this all works and whether I’m autistic or not.
What gets me is the uncertainty principle.
Like… no fucking shit you can’t know the state of a thing until it’s observed. You can’t know until you know, you know? But you can still take a fucking guess.
And, it’s still a certain way until observed. It doesn’t somehow change suddenly because it’s been observed!
No, that’s entirely wrong. That’s really the core idea. A particle is not in a certain way, it is in an undefined state. The very fact that you look at it, involes exchanging information (like sending another particle at it and see “how it bounces back”, to make a very primitive example).
Observing something intrisically means interacting with it and that interaction will affects the state of the particle.
Ok… how can you know that, though? The slit test is always the proof I’m pointed to, but that doesn’t explain in any way how a particle is essentially stateless until observed, only that how it is observed changes the outcome. How would you know it is stateless until you look at it? You can’t know for sure until you measure it!
The whole thing seems less like physics and more like philosophy.
Im a least a lil autistic and I for one love quantum mechanics, if you view existence from a “Schrödinger’s Cat” kinda perspective it explains anything paranormal and personally allows me to believe this world is anything more than a bleak, capitalist dystopia from time to time. Certainly explains away the ongoing issue of extraterrestrials if you conceptualize multitudes of reality coexisting at once, anyways.
Just to add another interpretation (that’s not exactly correct, but might rest your mind a little bit): when you measure a single particle (or molecule) it’s kind of hard to predict the outcome - so it’s useful to think of particles having two states (or molecules having more vibrational states, for instance). When you add a lot of particles or molecules together, the population behavior gets a lot more predictable, and this situation is closer to what we are used to in the real world, that’s one of the reasons quantum mechanics feels unnatural. It’s also somewhat similar to how a single person can be different and unpredictable, but marketing can easily get insights from large populations. Imagine studying a million people and figuring out 0.5% of them are blonde and have AB+ blood type. When you look at this, you might ask what does 0.5% of people even mean: it’s only 1 in 200, but depending on how you think about it, it looks very weird - what does half person even mean in the real world? In the end, it’s more a matter of how we interpret things, and trying to compare quantum behavior with real-world analogies will always be weird.
I like to think of it in this way. They have a mathematical model of a thing which works by supposing the thing is in two states at once as long as its true state has not been determined. That just means that it is actually irrelevant what state a thing is/was in, or if the thing even exists/existed (!), as long as it didn’t interact with anything (or is being observed which implies an interaction).
Does the moon exist when you turn your back at it and close your eyes? --> It might not, and it would not make a difference if it didn’t.
It’s probably not just because you’re autistic. Quantum states are a little mind-blowing. But I do like the implication that I get to determine what’s “real” because the quantum universe doesn’t collapse into a single state until my consciousness interacts with it.
There is absolutely no evidence that consciousness causes wavefunction collapse (that is, if wavefunction collapse even happens at all, but that is a different discussion entirely).
Literally every source suggests that the wave function collapses due to being observed. Unless you’re a Nobel-winning physicist, it’s unclear how you are an authority whose opinion matters.
If you have any source with credible evidence of consciousness causing collapse, I would like to see it.
Even if it were a matter of opinion among experts, the position that consciousness causes collapse is hardly a common one, despite your attempt at claiming the contrary.
Literally every source suggests that the wave function collapses due to being observed.
This claim that every source suggests that the wave function collapses due to being observed by a conscious being, and only by observation by a conscious being (which is presumably what you meant given the original context) is blatantly false. Give me a single reputable source that makes such a claim of consciousness causing collapse as anything other than a statement of (minority) interpretation.
Unless you’re a Nobel-winning physicist, it’s unclear how you are an authority whose opinion matters.
This is insulting. You are ludicrously claiming that expert opinion agrees unanimously that consciousness causes collapse (despite it actually being seen as a minority view by the community), yet have the audacity to say that my opinion on the matter is useless, despite the fact that I am a senior physics/mathematics double major at a major university with a respected physics program (and which includes multiple Nobel laureates in physics, since you mentioned it). I have already taken both undergraduate quantum mechanics courses as a junior; moreover, I currently only have one more physics course (along with several more math courses and one more general education requirement) required to graduate.
Obviously, this does not make me an expert on the topic in any sense whatsoever, but I think you are in no position to suggest my opinion is useless.
But I do like the implication that I get to determine what’s “real” because the quantum universe doesn’t collapse into a single state until my consciousness interacts with it.
To get right to the point, the idea of consciousness causing collapse is a minority interpretation of quantum mechanics (one that was originally conceived more as a hypothetical alternative interpretation without full seriousness being given to it in its own right) that has been given undue credit in the public eye by the dishonest purveyors of quantum mysticism (like Deepak Chopra) who confidently attribute supernatural attributes to quantum theory with neither any explanation nor even the simplest indication of understanding of even the simplest of an introduction to the topic, let alone any authority on the topic. The part of your comment, “I get to determine what’s ‘real’”, seems to indicate your familiarity with quantum mysticism beyond just the idea of consciousness causing collapse.
NO, there is absolutely no evidence of any fundamental role of consciousness in quantum mechanics, but you may have been mislead into believing there is. If you have any such credible experimental evidence of consciousness causing collapse, you would be the first to provide such.
Wasn’t it something about the information about the state being recorded?
It’s been a while since I last read up on any of this but I’d be surprised if the double slit experiment for example showed wave behavior just because the results of the detector weren’t shown to humans.
