This question’s on my mind because my coworker today mentioned they would vote for Trump if they could (mind you this is 2023, in Canada). I don’t generally have the talking points or the desire to fight about it, so I just deflected the conversation. But I often wish I was more strong-willed and could try to figure out why someone believes what they do and, if it’s invalid, then convince them otherwise.
Thus, I’m curious what you all would say or what you’ve done in the past!
There’s a good reason that civilised people never discuss politics or religion
Edit - And only idiots take everything fuckin literally jesus fuck 😅
I feel that avoiding confrontation and letting trash views flourish has led to major problems in our societies.
You can act like a cult member and stop talking to them, or you can realize what’s important in life, real human connection, and just agree to disagree. As long as you guys aren’t going to call each other names, talk about it. But don’t go into it with the aim of convincing, go into it with the aim of learning. If both of you do this, you’ll come to clearer conclusions.
My sister is a sweetheart who loves animals, nature, people, and has given so much of her time and money to take care of our mother.
She voted Trump and it seems like she would do it again. Why?
She’s a fundamentalist evangelical Christian. You have to understand the Christian slant if you’re setting out to understand Trump voters. It’s not the only lens to see the MAGA phenomenon through, but it’s a big one.
Why are those two tied together so tightly, even though it’s glaringly obvious that Trump isn’t a Christian himself and doesn’t espouse their values? He gave them all the things they wanted. And he’ll keep doing it.
You’ll find plenty of other people backing Trump as well, and many will be total assholes and pond scum. The liberal tears crowd, the trolls. Probably the ones many commenting here are talking about. But I suspect these types are only the vocal minority and it’s people like my sister who are a much more silent majority. They are beloved people in their communities, they are not the monsters you would make them out to be. It takes an open mind to understand their position. Make sure you’re ready to explore and understand without judgement, or else you might as well just write them off and find something more productive to use your time with.
People’s whose politics are fueled by hatred of others having rights are not good people, they just wear their good deeds as a “good people” costume.
We’ve listened, and yes they are monsters. Their entire purpose is to take away from others. That’s not good people.
Think about what you just said in response to my story. You’re so ready to tar and feather that you’re willing to tell me that somehow you know the true intent of my sister better than her own brother.
In this cartoon of a world you live in, I hope someday you find room for nuance.
There’s no need for tar and feathers, but it’s good to know that’s how you see anyone who disagrees.
The thought that we know someone better-especially someone we love- often clouds our judgement of them. We want them to be good people so we gloss over the terrible parts. That’s ok, you keep defending your sister and the rest of us will keep knowing better, no tar and feathers necessary.
There’s no nuance when it comes to Trump though.
I’m sure your sister is a lovely person but how blind can she be after all that has happened? Is she voting for Trump or is she just brainlessly voting republican? And in either case, why? Where’s her culpablity?
She really is, and the others who want to tar and feather any and all Trump voters could learn something knowing her.
But your hunch is likely correct. Christian fundamentalists do not vote Democrat. Democrats support choice, and in their frame of reference God already chose and we don’t get a say. Abortion is a big one, despite there being nothing in the Bible to indicate a solid position on the matter.
Aside from the religious dogma, I doubt she spends any time on the internet or listening to political punditry. With less information to go by, she probably sees the hate as a part of the left’s own orthodoxy and something that can be dismissed. As much as the left has going for it, there is some fierce orthodoxy and tone deafness that fuels the right wing’s disdain and drives their dismissal of us.
Can you be culpable if you were not aware? I know that doesn’t fly in matters of law but I think a person can be forgiven to an extent if they don’t know the depths of a matter as well as others.
I can tell you love and respect your sister, which can sometimes be hard when you’re ideologically opposites.
I do think you’re excusing her a little too easily. Don’t we all have a responsibility to be informed, especially about who we vote for?
they are not the monsters you would make them out to be
Ah, so a different variety of monster then, gotcha
Exactly. Kind in the micro, monsters in the macro. If you’re trying to raise money for the needy through the church but don’t want the government to help them at scale you really just want glory for your god and safety just for your community over other communities. Helping people is just an accident in pursuit of those causes.
What? Even if you engaged in charity solely to “glorify God”, why would welfare prevent you from doing that? Do you think welfare programs steal glory from God? Do you think that religious people think this way? (Outside of the literally mentally ill, no they don’t. They view charity as a moral obligation, not the only mechanism by which to “glorify God”. Just like any normal effective altruist).
“Just for your community over other communities”- Again, what? Improving the conditions of your community isn’t harming other communities. People in other communities also have a responsibility to improve their community, and there is nothing preventing one community from helping another.
“Helping people is just an accident in pursuit of those causes”-If it was just an accident, then surely it would be avoided? Let’s not forget that these causes are “glorifying God”, and either harming or ignoring other communities.
It’s okay to criticise trying to apply individualistic practices on a systemic scale, but you’re just fabricating nonsense to try to justify how you already decided to feel.
You can’t possibly understand how dumb you look having said that about someone you don’t know to someone who knows very well. Get a life you bum.
loves animals, nature, people
voted Trump
If she did the latter, she isn’t the former.
Then you don’t know people well and I dare say you should put down the phone and try harder.
This low effort dunk just makes you look ignorant.
There’s no ‘dunk’. She voted against people, animals, and nature. Your sister is not a good person.
A friendly demeanor slapped over evil actions doesn’t make the actions any less evil.
Giving her the benefit of the doubt, best case scenario is she’s just stupid and was tricked by evil people into being a tool. Worst case, she understands what she’s doing and is just openly evil.
In any case, you can’t claim to love thy neighbor while actively advocating for burning their house down.
Friends don’t let friends support fascists.
While I like the sentiment, it doesn’t actually address OP’s question. My guess is OP also hates fascists but has trouble discussing their opinions on politics with their fasc-curious friend for whatever reason, whether it’s because they want to preserve the relationship or generally have trouble keeping up in a back and forth (which is totally fine, being quick-witted is not a requirement to hate fascists). What are your tips for approaching the conversation?
If you’re privileged enough not to be threatened in that situation (ie you’re not a younger woman, an immigrant, LGBTQ+) and it’s not emotionally damaging to maintain the relationship, do. Be there, but be open about different and willing to answer questions. Either they’ll be an ass eventually, or maybe, just maybe, you can show them the rabbit hole is just their head in the sand. Cult deprogrammers say over and over that the best way to get people to see reason is through personal conversation. But don’t have expectations that it’ll work all at once, or if they go back and forth in their beliefs. Unlearning worldviews is hard work.
OP said coworker, which I think most people missed. If you’re privileged enough to quit your job over a coworker’s political opinion, more power to you, I guess. I think that’s letting the fascists win, since you’ve literally ceded ground. But I believe OP is looking for constructive solutions to discuss politics with a coworker to preserve the relationship, likely both for their sanity at work and because there’s other things about the person they like.
… why exactly are they my friend if they’re trying to murder my other friends? I don’t get along too well with people who want to do that.
