TL;DR: The European Commission is launching an anti-subsidy investigation into Chinese electric vehicle makers, potentially leading to higher import duties. This move aims to protect Europe’s auto industry and address concerns of dependency on China. If Chinese EVs are found to have an unfair advantage due to subsidies, it could impact their growth in Europe and lead to retaliatory measures. The investigation reflects growing geopolitical tensions and could influence the global EV market. (via ChatGPT)
Maybe Europe should step up its game and actually finally start producing proper EVs for accessible prices. I’m sorry, but banning chinese EVs won’t save us from climate change. This is a move to save the european billionaire class that owns all of these companies that refuse to innovate here. I say: let the chinese bring their EVs over. It’s capitalism after all :) Let them compete. Wasn’t that the story they kept telling us? About how competition breeds innovation? Funny how that is no longer the case now that true competition exists and not just a bunch of european car manufacturers that make up a monopoly to keep us buying their shitty expensive cars.
I‘m sure it’s not as simple, but my first take on this was: Europe doesn’t invest in EVs, but China does. They start to loose the Chinese market and are about to loose their own market to China as well. Then politics steps in to “rescue” their own companies but all that does is shelter them from the pressure to adapt and evolve, and in the end they’re beyond hope and left in the dust while the advanced Chinese cars dominate everything.
Countering subsidies with import taxes is a different story ofc. But it certainly feels like the European car industry is in decline and it’s probably their own fault. If not in Europe most certainly in China.
I should add that I have no idea what I’m talking about here, so feel free to tell me where I’m wrong.
It is not like European companies are not investing into EVs, but that EVs are different. The big advantage is battery technology, but most batteries are bought from third parties. Only Tesla and BYD have large battery production of their own. So everybody else buys them from other companies. So it is hard to be better on that technological front. The rest is a generally nice interior and software. Interior is something Europeans can do, but it has relativly little value add. What is more important is software and that is difficult for manufacturing based companies like traditional car companies.
This is not to say that European companies can not win this or lack innovation. They make good EVs, but so do the Chinese and that means a war on price. Europe is in a disadvantage on that. However there are solutions being planned like large battery plants by European manufacturers and better software development.
It is not like European companies are not investing into EVs
Only Tesla and BYD have large battery production of their own
These two statements seem at odds…
Also volkswagen are building factories and bmw are doing partnerships or something. But yeah, they should’ve been doing that 10 years ago…
EVs are more the just batteries and both Volkswagen and BMW have set up production lines for EVs they developed themself. That is certainly investment. However they are using batteries from other companies. They are catching up with tesla and BYD by also setting up battery factories now. It is a bit late, but maybe not too late.
Take a look at what VW did to the British car market with illegal subsidies from the German Government. Then look at VW being caught in the emissions scandle. Long story short, cheating is profitable.
British car manufacturers didn’t need Germany to dismantle themselves. The only reason you even have a car industry left is because German companies came in, bought up those husks of mismanagement out of (near) bankruptcy, and turned them around.
Long story short: Don’t let nobs run your companies. They were as good at deciding what customers want as Homer Simpson is at designing a car and caused strike after strike by being, well, arrogant nobs telling the peasants to eat cake.
Correct, that was the thinking what had happened at the time but when you realise VWs were being sold about 5k below market cost you realise there was no competing. Look deeper.
The Germans and the French wrecked British car manufacturers because they were better, not because of subsidies. British cars at the time sucked.
This article is very biased.
Chinese cars are in no way a threat to Volkswagen and especially not a life or death situation.
They are cheap and they are many. That’s it. Tesla and other carmakers did EVs slow and steady and china subsidized like hell and is trying to flood markets.
Just like every other easy to build technology. Find thing, make thing flood market with cheap versions and less cost.
I don’t know what’s actually going on, but this certainly sounds like something someone would say who’s about to be taken over by an “underdog” who couldn’t possibly beat them.
No, they can beat ““us”” by subsidizing their exports. If they didnt they wouldnt even be here. Thats even mentioned in the article.
If you are talking about china as if it was an underdog you make yourself look like an idiot btw. China is a worldpower that is very open about disrupting foreign markets if it brings in money.
But it’s fine. China still imports machinery and chemicals like crazy. We’re not gonna die
They’re easier to build than internal combustion engine cars. But that doesn’t mean they’re easy to build in general.
If they were easy to build, European car companies would have no problem to build them.
Of course, putting a battery and an electric drive into a car is simple. Electric cars are 50 years older than combustion cars. But there’s a reason why they did not took off in the 1840s and why we did not use electric cars for 180 years — building usable ones is difficult.
They’re doing this because they know the argument “China just builds cheap stuff” hasn’t been true for two decades now.
Nah mate, most of their stuff is terrible shit. DJI is literally the only company I can think of that makes decent quality stuff. And even they fail at times with shitty software.
I work in machinery for the beverage industry. The Chinese still try to copy us (even literally copying our presentation material and displaying it on the very same tradefair that we take part in), and do an incredibly shitty job.
Not that German cars are any better though. German car makers are well past their prime. Fuck the car industry.
The German car makers are loosing in the EV war in China, due to too high cost. Especially Volkswagen is among the best in terms of EVs, Europe has to offer. I am sorry, but same specs with half the price is a really good selling point. With subsidies that is very much possible.
German cars in europe are losing the EV war in Europe because of high costs. China can just throw cars below ID3 prices onto the market and it’s gonna look like a good deal. Chinese cars also don’t have to follow any data protection laws in their software. If VW is the best European EV I can’t say as I’ve not driven anything but VW, BYD and Nio.
Did you see how terrible the recent privacy results were for European and US car manufacturers? What extra metrics can the Chinese cars gather?
The Thing about electric cars is at least threefold…
First, the drivetrain. Legacy carmakers are already ahead or closing the Gap. Its mostly Standard hard engineering.
Seconds: battery. It is the Most expensive Hardware component. While VW, Stellantis and US legacy Starts Bildung battery plants, it is way cheaper in China to source the battery modules from CATL, the industry Leader. Subsidized in China and for Chinese manufacturers.
Third: Software and Infotainment. Legacy Cars suck at this, but its the Most important Factor, at least in China itself.
Fourth: the Combination of everything in an underlying Platform. Here, legacy struggles too,but they are not that far behind (and Tesla ahead). The Problem ist, Chinas manufacturers are, again, heavily subsidized in developement of These platforms.
Yup, Software in chinese EVs offers more. German car manufacturers also struggle in the EV Market in after-sales. Why should i buy an ID3 for 45K and then spend another 15 to get all the features if the BYD has all features from the get go at 45K. Its less features in total and they arent as finetuned but they are all there.
All thanks to subsidies.
Third: Software and Infotainment. Legacy Cars suck at this
They were pretty good around 2017ish and earlier models when they had enough physical buttons and dials for everything… And tesla have the worst infotainment in the world… They don’t even have a separate gauge cluster…
Isn’t cheap and many of a good less bad thing exactly what you’d want? As a consumer.
Of course. I would love to have my car but spend way less. Bur i think it would be very bad for the economy if this all is because the CCP actively subsidizes cars to export at cheap prices.
Same reason why donating old clothes to african countries sucks. Because it destroys their local production of those goods. German cars would be banned by the CCP if we subsidized them and somd them at a loss in china with the goal of destroying their own automobile market.
You think other countries don’t subsidize their industries for competition? Lol
Welcome to the real world kiddo
Great. Fuck China.
No for being China and flooding the market with “cars” that barely pass safety regulations and are so cheap that they are definitely not making money with them and likely produce with slave labor, this is a trade war and it shall be fought accordingly.
You being pro China is a absolute disgrace to humanity and the values of the civilized world.
That’s free market capitalism for you and European car makers are also producing in China and leverage the same labor forces.
I’m not being pro china, I’m just pointing out your bigotry towards China, has no place here, just because the EU is not able to push the Europe EV industry enough to be competitive.
You being pro China is a absolute disgrace to humanity and the values of the civilized world.
I forgot what this kind of argument is called when we attack the person instead of attacking their argument. Anybody can shed a light?
Not great. I hate the CCP but I hate European car manufacturers too. They know they can get away with high prices and discontinuing EVs before they are even released. And the Chinese EVs are much safer than many European brands in the EURO NCAP tests. China has simply great engineers. Volvo is also mostly Chinese owned and are still developing new safety systems
Sure do this. But maybe at the same time see where these western manufacturers are profiting excessively and get that under control too because these electric cars are too damn expensive. At least here in the US they are.
The ICE aren’t any better. My god, what you can spend on a vehicle these days is insane, and you know it’s going to be trash in 5 years.
It is almost as if the entire concept of owning a vehicle for the 2-3 trips a day most people take is not a very efficient concept.
You mean 2-3 trips per week, right? Maybe with kids it gets one per day or every two days? laughs in 100 percent homeoffice
In the EU they would struggle to significantly cut the purchase price without screwing themselves with their liability with leased cars, particularly those on PCP (which is one of the most common ways to buy a brand new car) as the manufacturers own the liability on that final payment (via their finance arm) not the purchaser. If they cut new prices significantly then older cars will also see a significant drop in resale price, those final payments are already finely balanced.
VW in particular fucked up as they put in a janky in car control system after removing all the buttons, stuck the largest battery behind the expensive high performance motor setup only (more people want range not performance at this point, this was a cheap counter productive cash grab trying to force people to a more expensive model), and was at least a generation behind on the EV side of things for charging and efficiency. Oh, and they killed the cheapest version of the car as well. Now they shut down their EV factory and fire workers, blaming falling industry wide EV sales rather than their own fuck ups, and they have the most to lose from China eating their business from the bottom.
