cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/15904702
“This was intentional,” said U.S. Rep. Rashida Tlaib. “You don’t accidentally kill massive amounts of children and their families over and over again and get to say, ‘It was a mistake.’”
I find the hysteria over the the top. Like, they targeted and killed two Hamas commanders. So when the article quotes someone saying they targeted civilians in tents, that should be called out as a lie.
Seems like the airstrike caused some flammable materials to catch fire and it spread to the tents. The resultant fire was obviously not intentional.
Hey, maybe don’t make camp with Hamas commanders? Maybe point them out on day one of the war so everyone can go back home? This should have been over in November.
LMAO no. You don’t bomb refugees to get an HVT. This is the use case for special forces. They exist for stuff like this in asymmetrical operations purely because we all agree to be bound by rules in war. That’s why this is called a war crime, no matter who they were “targeting”.
I suppose if your media diet consists of Qatari state media and fundraising solicitations, as yours does, you would think that. In reality, commanders and tunnels are fair and morally just military targets under uncontroversial rules of war. And, if there’s a reasonable effort to notify civilians to leave the area, that’s all international law requires. Period everything you suggest above and beyond that is just your wish, and also ignores the fact that the tunnel warfare in Gaza is unprecedented in world history. If people don’t leave after the warnings, that’s on them. 99.3% of all Palestinians managing to get along without being killed standing near tunnel shafts, standing next to Hamas members. That’s the asymmetry I care about. That’s why I find these reactions over the top and hysterical. Especially when your counterproposal is to let generations, millions more Palestinians, live and die without ever knowing hope, under the physical and mental shackles of Hamas/panislamist leadership. I’m not concerned about the 0.7% who can’t seem to stay away from Hamas. The only thing they are victims of is radical pan-Islamist plot to use their deaths to weaken western military and political power in the region.
They think they’re going to restore Islam to its “rightful place in the world,” which is code for a theocratic Islamic dictatorship ruling over hundreds of millions of people as well as killing every Jew in israel. The only rightful place in the world for Islamic government is in the trash bin, and aside from that it’s never going to happen as long as western governments remain generally committed to democratic ideals.
I understand the news is very sad. Maybe your efforts would be better spent convincing the Palestinian people to tell Hamas to wear uniforms.and stop hiding under hospitals and houses, if they’re going to complain that 0.7% of them were indistinguishable, if they’re going to cry victim and wield international custom of war as a shield. Nah, they won’t do that, because they literally want their kids to be in harm’s way; their greatest ambition, under Hamas, is to die in a way that makes you sad.
While I agree with what you say, you must realise it’s not in Hamas’ interest to advertise to people around them exactly who they are? They rely on people not fleeing. Some are family members, yes. But others? They probably have no idea a senior commander is two tents over from them.
Nonsense. Israel is claiming there were Hamas commanders responsible for recent West Bank attacks hiding under the tents. How is that possible when Gaza has been sealed and blockaded since 2007? And how are Hamas commanders allegedly in a land cleared by the IDF and in a “safe zone” the IDF told civilians to move to?
The IDF has a miserable track record of being proved to be lying by reporters over and over and over again, and even this claim strains credibility.
I think Israeli and Western intelligence knows better than you, and more importantly, they have more credibility than Hamas and Hamas loyalists, whose job it is to exaggerate and lie. Want to talk about straining credibility? Let’s talk about how nobody who died in air strikes is ever a Hamas members, there’s hundreds of miles of tunnels in a tiny little area and Hamas loyalists pretend they don’t know where they are, pretend they have no idea who is launching thousands of rockets day after day. Give me a break. The IDF on the other hand, actually has a track record of arresting and prosecuting war criminals within their own ranks. Hamas has a track record of giving them cash prizes.
lol, so Netanyahu isn’t an extremist who was caught lying multiple times about the existence of Hamas command centers under multiple buildings. You think it’s more likely he’s guided by intelligence reports over his actual ideology or his political and personal motivation to prolong a war to avoid jail time once he’s out of office for corruption?
Western Intelligence hasn’t backed up this claim so stop hiding behind them as if that absolves the crime.
Go ahead and show me IDF prosecuting war criminals in their ranks. I’ll wait. Despite the White House telling the Israeli government which specific divisions committed documented crimes this year alone, there hasn’t been any prosecutions. And I’m not talking about a single case but the hundreds of documented episodes on video of Israeli soldiers supporting pogroms in West Bank. Russia literally prosecuted more pogrom perpetrators than Israel has despite the video proof and more witnesses.
The difference between “ the most moral army in the world” and the rest of us is that they are willing to kill children.
Are you?
Would I bomb a proven terrorist who is known to be plotting the deaths of more children even if he’s surrounded by his family? Yes, unfortunately.
This isn’t a “who likes killing children” competition. It’s a really shitty trolley dilemma where inaction means letting killers continue to plot their next campaign targeting women and children
If leaving them alone meant you didn’t know if their next target was your kids school, or your wife’s place of work, or your parents retirement village, would you press the button on them or not?
What if he was surrounded by your family? Would you still do it then?
That’s the price that you are asking others to pay for your war
I’m not willing to let terrorists dictate the terms of war because they are so deranged they let their own kids die, and be proud about it. So yes if there are, terrorists or tunnels there, all that’s required is a reasonable attempt to warn. People want to take their kids with them that’s up to them. I’m not willing to see another generation of Palestinians die hopeless under a theocratic dictatorship that only retains power by terror financing from Iran and the charity from the West, which prevents the Palestinian people from realizing how shitty their chosen leadership it.
So yes or no, you are ok with someone killing children to get what they want?
For the IDF and the Israeli government, every Gazan is Hamas. There’s no distinction.
They’ve used this argument that Hamas is hiding within civilians as an excuse to kill at many Palestinians as possible.
Finally, it doesn’t matter if there was even one Hamas official in that camp. It was a humanitarian camp that was designated as a safe civilian zone. It shouldn’t have been bombed. That’s a clear violation of international law.
You know what would distinguish them? If Hamas and their loyalists wore uniforms. The failure to do so is a clear violation of international law. That strategy, combined with the tunnel system, the total disregard Hamas loyalists have for their own children’s lives, and their Iranian and Qatari backed lawfare campaigns, makes this situation unprecedented.
Obviously though, if this particular location was being used to harbor Hamas commanders, it’s not a humanitarian camp or a safe zone. Everywhere Hamas goes, anyone near them is in harms way.
How many more generations of Palestinian will you condemn to die under the leadership of a far right panislamist dictatorship that has a track record of corrupting every public institution and turning them into instrumentalities of international terrorism, just because you’re too sad about the news?
No thanks, Israeli democracy is redeemable, Gaza is not.
You don’t get it. As I said in my previous comment, for the IDF, every Palestinian is part of Hamas in their eyes.
In fact the whole ideology behind Zionism is to colonize the entirety of Palestine land and claim it as the Jewish promised land of Israel, killing anyone who resists that ideology.
If you support that ideology that one set of people with a certain religious belief are the true people of God and are superior to everyone else and that anyone who opposes them in their crusade to remove or kill the native people of Palestine to claim it as their own Holy Land, then, you’re nothing less than an apologist for judeo-fascism and genocide.
You find the hysteria over the top? Over 30,000 innocent people have been slaughtered and your reaction is “but hamas” This is one of countless war crimes commited by this genoicidal state and reponding with “what about the other side” is quite frankly abhorent.
I think what is going on here is that this person would have to admit america has committed awful and repeated war crimes over the years, just like Israel is now.
You can tell because they use Americas past wars/incidents as a standard to compare against.
Their position is so unpopular here because most people here would never hold up America as a standard for international relations, unless to illustrate what NOT to do.
I find the hysteria over the the top. Like, they targeted and killed two Hamas commanders. So when the article quotes someone saying they targeted civilians in tents, that should be called out as a lie.
It might not be big news for you, but once you see the same military speak and narrative over and over again, you start to question and become more criticial of what they say vs. what is closer to the truth.
Reminds me of some other wars, where we droned many civilians, 'but we were targeting terrorists" line is also used to a certain degree.
Which war and whistleblower released the info on the closer to real data of civilian death vs. military reported civilan deaths…Iraq, Iran, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Somalia, or Pakistan.
The Iraq War documents leak is the disclosure to WikiLeaks of 391,832 United States Army field reports, also called the Iraq War Logs, of the Iraq War from 2004 to 2009 and published on the Internet on 22 October 2010. The files record 66,081 civilian deaths out of 109,000 recorded deaths.
Seems like the airstrike caused some flammable materials to catch fire and it spread to the tents. The resultant fire was obviously not intentional.
That may be true, but when you see Israeli talking points in legacy media, they make sure to always bring up how much effort they put into keeping the civilan death count to the minimum. They do not release any of the data on this though, only on the ‘Hamas’ terrorist death count.
Hey, maybe don’t make camp with Hamas commanders? Maybe point them out on day one of the war so everyone can go back home? This should have been over in November.
Have you heard of Guerrilla warfare? Our gov’t and military has a lot of experience with this type of warfare, but if you look at the data, it seems to only increase terrorists due to them spreading out and, due to civilian deaths, it tends to increase terrorism due to martyrs and revenge for family/friends.
Guerrilla warfare is a form of unconventional warfare in which small groups of irregular military, such as rebels, partisans, paramilitary personnel or armed civilians including recruited children, use ambushes, sabotage, terrorism, raids, petty warfare or hit-and-run tactics in a rebellion, in a violent conflict, in a war or in a civil war to fight against regular military, police or rival insurgent forces.
I hope this has helped you see a different point of view, I would suggest to read about the US wars we have been a part of for around a couple of decades.
You may read military and legacy media data on the wars, then look at the leaked information to contrast and compare the information.
Feel free to share that information [with] us as well!
Let us keep talking to people we do not agree with or think like we do!
Yeah unfortunately when Hamas surrounds themselves with civilians, this stuff happens. It’s what they’ve been doing this entire war. They’re cowards
IDF’s headquarters is in a civilian neighborhood in Tel Aviv. Why does IDF surround itself with civilians? By Israel’s logic, is Tel Aviv now a valid target?
Thanks for the clarification. I didn’t see this info in the 15-20 posts before for some strange reason. And yes this info matters a lot. It’s very different from the constant Israel is indiscriminately slaughtering Palestinian babies in camps as part of a genocide.
