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25 points
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Also I guess losing the majority on SCOTUS and losing abortion rights was just a “hypothetical scenario” when people like you refused to vote for Hillary in 2016?

When will you people learn that, yes, elections have consequences.

Trying to pretend like they might not and Trump might somehow not be worse is being deliberately obtuse and sticking your head in the sand. Wake up and smell the reality.

Please tell me about your hypothetical future where you don’t vote for Biden. Please explain to me what your best case scenario and outcome look like in that situation? Please tell me, what are you working towards?

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8 points

Best case, a third party wins and starts to dismantle an empire. Realistic case is Biden or Trump win and my vote had nothing to do with it. Biden and Trump are both bad leaders. Deporting or silencing dissenters is bad leadership. I’m still not voting for Biden. Nice try though.

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10 points
5 points

TL;DR: I’m not voting for Biden. I will be a spoiler if that’s what you call it. The police response to protests is an example of policies Biden wants to keep funding. Biden and Trump can both be bad leaders.


Aside: Voting is entertaining, but work on your cardio. Build some communities. Life is going to get harder for working folk.


I understand the spoiler effect in first-past-the-post voting. Avoiding a voting system subject to the spoiler effect requires a rated voting system. Major reform is required to remove the spoiler effect from the voting system in the USA.

There are other logical problems with the spoiler effect in the USA however.

First, the popular vote is divorced from the Electoral College vote. Thereby, even if Tiger gets 15% of the vote the Electoral College representatives for that portion of the population may vote for Leopard.

Second, there is an assumption Tiger voters would vote for Leopard or Gorilla if Tiger was not an option. Voter turnout in 2020 was 66.8%. That means roughly a third of people chose not to vote. There is an argument to be made that this is also a spoiler, but combined that block could shift the outcome in Tiger’s favor.

Third, “I’m not the other guy” is not a political platform. Biden pays lip service to protecting American Democracy which seems to be a conservative stance to maintain a voting system favoring the wealthy. Codifying Roe v. Wade is great, but could have been done at any time in the past. Separation of powers requires a Legislative branch that would work on such issues. Funding the police does not solve policing which leads to responses to protest like the George Floyd marches or recent campus violence.

I am sure there are other reasons to vote for Biden. The FTC fighting corruption under Lina Khan is one. Corporate bailouts opposing the neoliberal order, like CHIPS and Infrastructure, could be another.

I am unable to vote for mass murder. I am unable to vote for corporate bailouts. I am voting for Tiger.

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6 points

when people like you refused to vote for Hillary in 2016?

Nice assumption.

Trying to pretend like they might not and Trump might somehow not be worse

Where did I do that, exactly? Please be precise.

Please tell me about your hypothetical future where you don’t vote for Biden.

Please show me where I expressed who I was or wasn’t going to vote for?

When you actually have a good-faith question about what I believe is the path forward, or what needs to happen, and are done shouting at an imagined person that you created post-2016 to explain the absolute failure of the Democratic Party to stop a fascist from taking power, I’ll be here.

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3 points

People like you are why the Democratic party keeps forcing shit candidates down our throats. They count on obnoxious people like you to guilt others into voting for “the lesser of two evils”

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9 points

No, it’s because people like you don’t vote in primaries. I vote in every primary for better candidates meanwhile people like you scream how the candidates are awful while staying home during the primaries.

The candidates won’t get better until we grass roots organize and start actually making good candidates popular.

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3 points

You know there’s elections before the primaries right? The Democratic party has shown that it will resort to all means of corruption to give you the “establishment” candidate. And people like you keep voting for the lesser of two evils. Let the Democrats lose more elections they shouldn’t lose, eventually they learn they need to uphold the values of democracy to win an election.

If the Democratic party wasn’t corrupt to the core, it would have been Bernie. After that it would have been Andrew Yang. You keep voting these Republicans in Democrat clothing, nothing ever gets solved. Every democrat in history since I was born has promised to do something about immigration, nothing ever gets done. Why? Because it serves their interests to have a variable workforce that they can underpay and demean.

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8 points
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The democratic/republican parties will shove shit candidates down your throat weather you vote for them or not.

There is no thirst anywhere that there is means to change it, to change it.

By refusing to vote, all you are doing is are refusing to limit damage.

Damage limitation is the best you can reasonably hope for

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