Be fair. The Chinese model is only strategically planned centrally. The tactical product decisions are still mostly market driven.
Edit: Apparently I need to be more clear. The ensuing bloodbath in the comments was funny to wake up to, though.
Yog’s comment included a line about how the West can’t compete on price nor quality. As far as I know, China’s 5-year plans, its model for SOEs and its integration into private companies, and its strategic allocation of resources have little to do with the quality of goods being exported. I could be wrong, but I haven’t seen quality control being part of the 5-years plans. I haven’t seen the application of statistical process controls being driven by central planners. This seems to have been done by private enterprise under the Chinese model.
Yog’s comment seemed to indicate that it was central planning that resulted in these outcomes.
My point is that central planning chose which aspects of production to leave up to private enterprise and market dynamics. As much as China is a living experiment in scientific revolutionary communism, it still has a stock market because, as we know, the transition through industrialization has never historically happened without some form of market economics (even the USSR had the NEP for this purpose).
SWCC is not capitalism, but it uses market forces to solve a large number of production puzzles, within the boundaries of the 5-year plans and, on a larger scale, within the boundaries of a scientific revolutionary state.
No one here freaks out when I say the communist state of China is still a state and it hasn’t yet withered away, but everyone gets all hot and bothered when I say lots of China’s production is solved by markets.
What else do I need to say?
- I am not wisconcom
- I am not an ultra
- I am not a Hoxhaist
- I am not a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist
- I was raised a lib and live in libland so I may have some lib patterns, but seeing China as capitalist is not one of them
- Y’all are funny
The goal of my comment was to push us to be more nuanced in our positions. China’s production quality no doubt benefits from central planning, but drawing a direct causal line between central planning and product quality in China is going to be difficult. Libs will push us into a research hole saying that the companies with good quality are not SOEs, that the company COOs are not party members, or whatever, and it’s just not worth it.
I also think that we need to be careful about the concept of “subsidies” and the export price of things. My understanding of Chinese state investment is just that - it’s investment. That investment likely doesn’t have 20% returns on it, and THAT’S something to dig into when we argue against the Western model. Finance capital in the West is problematic, but when you look at the physical mechanisms, China is making financial investments, so libs will be confused as to what the difference is. And part of the answer is that state investments don’t carry the same burden as market investments. Another part of the answer is that state investments are based on a central plan understanding of national development instead of finding market inefficiencies (like the Western model).
Anyway, keep it real.
None other than President Xi himself has emphasized the role of markets and downplayed the use of “central planning” in the Chinese economy. I think the state control of the banking system works hand-in-hand with this type of central planning (where there’s an overall strategic plan developed by the state and the plan is implemented in the market sector). It’s a fascinating model that I’m trying to learn more about (just downloaded Roland Boer’s Socialism With Chinese Characteristics)
The whole notion of central planning where a single central authority micromanages every detail of the economy has always been just a straw man. In my opinion, the central government is best viewed as a central nervous system in the body. It doesn’t concern itself with the minutiae of how each particular organ functions, but rather coordinates the functioning of the body as a whole. Incidentally, seeing a society itself as an organism shines light on why central planning becomes necessary as a society grows. Same coordination problems arise that complex living organisms must solve, and thus we see self similar solutions emerge.
While true, the USSR (post NEP) is a good contrast to the Chinese model. The USSR attempted to centralize demand planning and price coordination across the whole economy.
They did, but there was still plenty local planning happening even within the Soviet system. What China shows is that it’s more efficient to push central planning even further to the top.
what a hilariously unironic “um, akshually, sweaty,” comment
“Um actually the Chinese Hive Mind in Beijing doesn’t direct the actions of every facet of the economy like TRUE central planning would do” lollllll china keeps winning
The “be fair” bit comes off as quite libbish and not making a real point, it smacks of “um china is actually capitalist” because they misunderstand that dengist market reforms haven’t changed the subordination of the bourgeoisie in China to the CPC which they constantly demonstrate (most basedly when they execute a corrupt billionaire). Like who cares about some arbitrary strategic/ tactical dichotomy?? China stay winning
