I feel like self immolation is a psyop to keep people from adventurism. Cause like this is depressing depressing.
Before I would’ve said it seems to be the action people take when they’re totally dedicated to non-violence even against people actively involved in genocide. But even that other dude was former military, so I don’t know.
I’d much rather these people go down raising hell than just go down. If they’re going to sacrifice themselves because they see no other way then the adventurist sacrifice is better than this, it at least might scare the shit out of the bourgeoisie.
Maybe it might be useful doming some major gentile zionist, but I think traditional adventurist actions like that tend to just be used as a pretext for cracking down on the left, while self-immolation so far is not, so I think it’s really the less harmful option.
Maybe if you can get an Israeli general or something, just because disrupting their operation might actually sink them at this point, while anyone could die in the US and the arms would keep flowing.
But really both suck and should be denounced as anti-social behavior.
Maybe it might be useful doming some major gentile zionist, but I think traditional adventurist actions like that tend to just be used as a pretext for cracking down on the left, while self-immolation so far is not, so I think it’s really the less harmful option.
I’m not convinced this is true in the current era we’re in. Until I actually see it happen I’m not conforming to the old school of thought on it. After seeing 2 successful assassinations and the Trump one actually scare the living shit out of him so much that I believe he has some real fear and ptsd from it I’m not convinced that our old head thoughts on these actions are correct.
I’m willing to change that view if something happens that genuinely does result in something that would’ve been better for us had it not occurred. But right now 3 things have happened that could be considered adventurism and all 3 times they’ve been fucking awesome, or in the case of trump maybe that was neutral? I lean towards good though just because i know damn well he’s scared shitless.
It being “less harmful” implies whatever the westerners are doing in protest currently are useful enough that disrupting it would become harmful to the cause.
Self immolation in the Imperial Core is an expression of profound helplessness, and speaks to the utter inability of the left to provide those people with a comprehensive ideological framework.
The U.S. State has done such an effective job of destroying revolutionary movements that those who could be drawn to a clear-headed Marxist perspective cannot find purchase; there are no revolutionary organizations that are not captured.
Blame Trotsky and the New Left I suppose (after you blame the State for the murder of the Black Panthers and the original BLM leaders).
TL;DR - Imperial Core collapse in slow motion
There’s literally nothing for people to do. If you do adventurism you get denounced as a fed and the state uses it as an excuse to strengthen itself. If you immolate yourself you get denounced as a fed and news of it widely ignored. If you try to join a group the group is denounced as feds and the state uses the group existing as an excuse to strengthen itself.
I think self immolation is a intensely contradictory thing.
Because on the one hand I don’t want people to do it, at all, I don’t want the people who have the courage and the compassion to do it, to do it and die. These people were comrades. And it often feels like it doesn’t even tip the scale against the atrocities that it is in protest of.
On the other the people who do are heroes. I’m not religious but while we argued about Bushnell here, the Palestinians, the Yemeni, all the oppressed people fighting this genocide immediately recognised Bushnell as a hero and martyr. It shows the oppressed people that even in the heart of the Great Satan, people support their righteous cause.
Like it’s complicated and I would like it if the cause of it was not happening, rather than just self-immolation was not happening.
People were shit talking Bushnell in the original thread when it happened. But I think it can arguably be more effective than fragging folks in the building or something. Obviously, encouraging suicide isn’t good as a standard. The people in charge won’t care either way. But if voters work mostly on vibes, which they often do, this paints a picture of “peaceful person harmed only themselves to protest the government’s evil actions” instead of letting people handwave them away by focusing on them hurting other people instead.
People don’t generally know what Thích Quảng Đức was protesting, but given images of a burning monk, they assume the people who let that happen and that prompted the action are the villains. Of course, there’s tons of people who handwave away people like in the OP as just those with mental illness already prone to suicide. So it could really go either way.
If OP is another Bushnell, I wish they hadn’t died and had lived to continue fighting alongside other comrades, but I respect they care enough about something to go to these lengths because it often feels like nobody cares at all.
It robs us of our most dedicated comrades to shame people who are immune to shame. It is not a fair trade
I know. If Bushnell didn’t stop the war then why would anyone think this is the way to go? I guess it makes a scene and brings attention but that’s next to nothing, attentions are frayed these days.
