Comment by Noughmad@programming.dev on Hamburg: Climate activists let air out of tyres of 33 cars (mainly SUVs!) again

From the article: *Large SUVs were particularly affected. According to the police, notes were attached to the cars indicating that they were harmful to the climate. The tyres were not punctured, but merely deflated. The cars were parked in the area between the S-Bahn line and Elbchaussee around Kanzleistraße. *

Personally, I like this protest way more than glueing themselves to the streets, causing traffic jams where cars burn gasoline for hours and ambulances / firefighters / police gets stuck, putting innocent life in danger.

The article is in German. Warning: this link leads to google translate.

I worked and paid for my property too, what makes you think it’s ok to pollute it with your oversized car?

You mean, the SUV which sits in my driveway? The one that drives less than 500 miles a year?

The one that is parked in front of the house powered by solar energy?

Why don’t you think of who the real problem is. Cargo ships running on bunker oil (This is the nastiest fuel you can imagine). Did- you know, they will typically switch to low sulfur fuels before entering most countries, because burning bunker oil is illegal nearly everywhere.

How, about you target the rich people, who fly private jets everywhere. Let’s not even mention the mega yachts which are basically floating cities.

Instead, of the fellow who happens to own a large vehicle, in order to haul things, and move children between events, while being able to support the proper luggage/equipment.

Also, lastly, Would you prefer me drive around in my big SUV which gets pretty decent gas mileage (in the 20s, excellent for a large vehicle), has modern pollution systems, catalytic converters, etc…

Or… would you prefer I drive around in my tiny racecars, with a 1,000hp turbocharged LS, absolutely no emissions equipment, not even a muffler.

Both are completely legal.

Sorry to say this to you, since you seem to take it somewhat personal, but it’s evident we need to stop both SUV’s and bunker oil.

I agree industry needs to step to it’s game. But frankly, so do you. Battling climate change is a painful.

I don’t see any eco-pirates boarding cargo ships and confiscating their fuel, do you? Seems to me that only working-class people are targeted by these so-called “activists”, and not anyone who actually has the power to change anything.

Honestly, this smells like a false-flag operation meant to discredit environmental activism by painting activists as criminals.

Here’s an example of Greenpeace blocking a russian liquid natural gas tanker from reaching port in Finland from September of last year, and here’s an example of Greenpeace activists boarding a container ship containing paper to protest deforestation from November of last year, here’s another example of the same group boarding a heavy lift vessel to protest offshore oil drilling from January of this year, and here’s an example of some scamps vandalizing a wal-mart heiress’s yacht from earlier this month.

You’re absolutely right, that activists boarding ships or otherwise vandalizing them gets way less press and markedly less discussion than this protest has. Why do you think that is?

Because those actions affect people with power, not the powerless general public.

Yeah, it probably sounds cynical, but I agree with you there. When there are successful actions that make powerful people uncomfortable, those power people successfully repress news coverage of those actions.

Besides, if one does not see certain actions, those actions might as well not be happening at all. If only there was a way people who cause the greatest harm to control what gets reported in mainstream media, effectively shifting people’s attention away from the harmful practices of their businesses…

Your talking to one of the extremely few people in my county who have managed to offset the majority of their carbon emissions via renewable resources.

Despite my utility and local government making that process a complete pain in my ass.

And Despite my utility and local government essentially ruining any hopes of an ROI by exorting me with extra fees. (To offset me not buying their energy)

My suv which has practical purposes here is not the problem.

Willing to be your average lawnmower pollutes more…

Don’t get me wrong: I seriously applaud your efforts. Like you say, we all need to do more like you.

But push comes to shove, you also need to change your SUV for an EV. All SUVs need to go. Especially since station wagons have the same utility, and are generally safer on the road.

Lots of people use specific types of vehicles for specific types of work.

There’s no one vehicle that will work for everyone.

I’m not the guy you were conversing with but in my line of work I need to haul lots of items often, and sometimes for long distances. That means I need cargo space, so either an SUV or a Truck.

I need to deliver those items or transfer those items across long distances, If I need to stop and recharge an electric vehicle 2-3 times that means my one day trip all of a sudden turns into an overnight stay in a hotel. I can’t get my work done if all of a sudden a one day job turns into a two day job.

I can’t afford to buy a new car. Public transportation in the US basically doesn’t exist, and riding a bike is a death sentence here. Buy me an EV and I’ll gladly drive it though :)

Edit: Also, I’d have nowhere to plug in the vehicle charger since I don’t have a garage where I live :/

This is not what this article is about though. They targeted huge cars in one of the most affluent areas in one of the biggest cities in Germany. We have very reliable public transport and about two days of snow per year. It is totally unnecessary to drive an SUV here. I do understand some people needing a big car for work but ferrying your kids around is easily managed using public transport here.

What is generating the power for that EV. What about the materials mined to make that EV? What happens to the battery once it can no longer hold a sufficient charge?

EVs are not green until the at the very least the energy being produced to power them is green. Which in almost all cases it is not. IMO it’s much more productive to focus on transforming our energy grid to renewables than to worry about SUVs.

From MIT:

The researchers found that, on average, gasoline cars emit more than 350 grams of CO2 per mile driven over their lifetimes. The hybrid and plug-in hybrid versions, meanwhile, scored at around 260 grams per mile of carbon dioxide, while the fully battery-electric vehicle created just 200 grams.

Also this says “on average gasoline cars” now I’d have to look at the data to be sure but an “average” gas powered car is generally going to be a lot bigger (SUVs, pickup trucks) and less fuel efficient than the smaller cars that most EVs are.

So we’re comparing larger vehicles most likely, to smaller ones, and still EVs producer greater than 50% of the CO2 emissions that ICE cars do.

This blame the consumer game is old. It’s been the same playbook for decades. Shift the responsibility to the consumer instead of regulating corporations.

We need to stop falling for the bait and switch and instead of demanding that people stop buying fuel inefficient vehicles, maybe we should just regulate them out? (And in many ways the world already is with the MPG and other requirements for new vehicles.)

That’s a very selective quote … https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars

And while internal combustion engines are getting more efficient, EVs are poised to become greener by leaps and bounds as more countries add more clean energy to their mix. MIT’s report sees gasoline cars dropping from more than 350 grams of CO2 per mile to around 225 grams by the year 2050. In that same span, however, battery EVs could drop to around 125 grams, and perhaps even down to 50 grams if the price of renewable energy were to drop significantly.

In fact, the article only really talks about Lithium Ion batteries too, and new technologies are rapidly being released (such as the CATL batteries)

In fact, many regions in other countries literally are 100% renewable now (Tasmania in Australia as an example). And, most EV owners here in Australia likely own solar panels. The MIT article is literally mainly focused on US (and if the republican’s stay out of power, things will likely only swing further in the green direction).

Same thing happened in Australia. We had an idiot as a Prime Minister, but voted him out, and things have rapidly changed now.

Don’t get me wrong: I seriously applaud your efforts. Like you say, we all need to do more like you.

But push comes to shove, you also need to change your SUV for an EV. All SUVs need to go. Especially since station wagons have the same utility, and are generally safer on the road.

Oh, I would love an EV.

Don’t get me wrong. But, for a EV with the room I need for the activities we perform, it’s extremely cost prohibitive.

Just now, the wife hauled two dog kennels with dogs. German Shepards. Those aren’t going to fit in a car… unless wagons make a comeback.

Also, Lithium batteries (process of obtaining Lithium) is pretty bad for the environment, and generally involves slave labor. As well, size, capacity, and cycle durability aren’t the best.

Lots of alternatives and prototypes are being worked on, and when that problem is solved by replacing Lithium with a cheap, affordable, durable replacement with enough energy density- EVs will be everywhere.

As is though, replacing the 30,000$ battery pack every decade or so is no Bueno.

Until then though, our daily driver is a small car. Suv is used to haul stuff and kids.

Do you realize these groups operates on places where SUVs are not required at all? no one is deflating tires in Texas. They operate in dense urban european areas which all have great public transport.

The one that drives less than 500 miles a year?

That’s not as relevant as it might seem, as producing the car is about half of its lifetime emissions. And producing big cars results in more emissions than more reasonably-sized cars.

You mean, the SUV which sits in my driveway?

‘Driveways’ in Hamburg Harvestehude:
https://goo.gl/maps/Ti3yVmXxCfoGozoy9
https://goo.gl/maps/MBHi6tHAfMALoPH38

Breaking news from around the world.

News that is American but has an international facet may also be posted here.

Guidelines for submissions:

Where possible, post the original source of information.
- If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
Social media should be a source of last resort.

These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.

For US News, see the US News community.

This community’s icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.

Hamburg: Climate activists let air out of tyres of 33 cars (mainly SUVs!) again(www.ndr.de)

World News

!news@beehaw.org

Guidelines for submissions:

Community stats

Community moderators