From the article: *Large SUVs were particularly affected. According to the police, notes were attached to the cars indicating that they were harmful to the climate. The tyres were not punctured, but merely deflated. The cars were parked in the area between the S-Bahn line and Elbchaussee around Kanzleistraße. *
Personally, I like this protest way more than glueing themselves to the streets, causing traffic jams where cars burn gasoline for hours and ambulances / firefighters / police gets stuck, putting innocent life in danger.
The article is in German. Warning: this link leads to google translate.
Being a climate activist is important.
Being malicious to others is garbage behaviour and you’re doing nothing but making sure people actively want to hurt the environment out of spite.
These people also give genuine climate activists a bad name. Reminds me of when extremists ruined the word feminist. It’s hard to explain to people that you want women to be treated equal, but you don’t hate men and want them to die.
No form of protest is acceptable to liberals (let alone conservatives). When you peacefully protest, no one pays attention, when you damage private property, everybody screams, when you are disruptive while not damaging said private property, you’re still a dick. So who cares, keep on going.
The problem is protests like these hurt working class families. Folks just trying to get by. In my area, you can’t exist without a car. If you want to protest do something that affects the decision makers. People like me have no power.
In the areas of Hamburg that have been targeted not one single person needs an SUV. We have reliable public transport that’s easily accessible to wheelchairs or strollers as well. So yeah, it did target the right people.
I’m pretty sure that Hamburg isn’t such an area, and that SUV’s are a totally unecessery folly there. This isn’t hurting working class families. (Also, people like you do have power, organize)
I wonder how many people on the receiving end even change their mind. I feel like if anything they’d completely reject the cause that is trying to be pushed, and the end result is a circle jerk between people who were already in agreement.
They target SUVs and alike. In what area do you live that a much more affordable and less gasoline consuming car wouldn’t work for you?
I’m a liberal, I can field this one. The form of protest I find acceptable is destruction of government and corporate property, but not working-class peoples’ houses and mom-and-pop businesses. Is it really so much to ask to have rioting confined to productive activities, such as trashing city hall, looting Amazon DCs, destroying private jets and yachts, assaulting corrupt politicians, tarring and feathering billionaires, and burning down police stations? The establishment has successfully recuperated progressive protest by tricking people into associating it with low-level domestic terrorism, “we get what we want or maybe your houses burn down”; what we should be doing is repeatedly yanking the choke chain on the state and the 1% so hard their eyes pop out.
It depends on what the goal of the protest is and an assessment of whether the act is going to actually be successful in bringing about the change they want.
If that isn’t taken into account it’ll just make people more ingrained in their beliefs, and possibly increase hatred towards the groups and the cause overall. Which can just lead to increased conflict and increase extremists on both spectrums.
Sometimes then the cause just devolves into people on both sides just reveling in getting to act out their primal desires.
If you own a SUV and you know there is a risk of your tires being deflated by taking it to the city center (or if it has happened to you already), you will probably avoid it.
If your example with feminism shows us something, it’s that no matter what you do your actions will be misconstrued by bad actors and your image will be tarnished in a counter-campaign regardless, so if you want to protest something, just skip the phase when you do polite convenient gentle reminders, and go straight to violence and terrorism, if that’s what you will be seen as anyway.
Considering they let the air out of the tires and left a polite finger-wagging note, I don’t think they skipped the gentle reminder phase.
Daily reminder that property damage is not violence, but random acts of property damage isn’t the same thing as genuine activism. We must be mindful of the purpose of a political act, and whether the act actually accomplishes that purpose. What is the purpose of inconveniencing random SUV owners? Will this affect any change, or will it merely entrench people’s existing attitudes?
Imo if you’re gonna slash tires, do it to the politicians. More news coverage, clearer message, and you don’t come off as petty against people for having the “wrong” kind of social performance (eg driving an SUV instead of an electric) and trivialize the issue.
lmao wait who gave feminists a bad rep? what is this altright strawperson?
I think they’re talking about the post-GamerGate anti-SJW movement where atheist youtubers converted to debunking straw-feminists. Maybe they’ve gotten out of that pipeline but haven’t internalized that those “bad” feminists were caricatures of their actual positions or cherry-picked crazies?
That is why I like this targeted actions over the gluing themselves to the road ones. This is targeted to people destroying the climate. I don’t think there is any good reason to drive an SUV or a sports-car in a city, and it is actively harmful. To pick up your equivalence: Feminists fight misogyny and inconvenience those guys actively showing it without necessarily alienating average guys.
One reason to drive an SUV in a city is that it’s the only vehicle you own. I park my truck in a city often but I don’t live there.
I wish this form of protest would catch on elsewhere as well. Every day I’m struck by the number of huge gas-guzzling pick up trucks parked around the city, and seemingly every bed completely empty. Letting out the air to their tires would certainly be slower and more work than the old method of puncturing their tires, but has the dual benefit of not necessitating replacement (which has a carbon cost of its own) and not enabling the vehicle owner to file an insurance claim.
This is a horrible form of protest because it is likely to cause property damage as most people are completely blind and oblivious and will drive on their now deflated tires for a bit before realizing something is wrong.
That will likely ruin the tire and possibly also damage the rim.
Second, you have no idea who you hurt and the repercussions of it.
There’s no immediate “big car = bad person” logic that’s valid.
If you want to protest in a meaningful manner you should support politicians who want to increase taxes for fossil fuels.
There’s a reason the average engine size (and thus vehicle size) is lower in Europe, and it’s not small streets and parking spaces.
Obviously since giant cars never took off here we didn’t scale things to fit, but that’s a chicken and egg thing.
The situation you are describing where a car owner returns to their vehicle, fails to see their four flat tires, fails to notice the note on their windscreen explaining that their tires have been deflated in protest, fails to notice their car’s tire pressure warnings, and drives any way, and drive enough to ruin their tires AND wheels seems unlikely enough to qualify as catastrophizing. The far more likely outcome is that the owner returns to their car and then spends some time, perhaps an hour or two, figuring out how to reinflate their tires.
I’m sure the individuals taking part in these protests also support politicians who desire stricter regulations about the types of vehicles they are targetting. Participating in peaceful protest and participating in a political process are not mutually exclusive.
I wish this form of protest would catch on elsewhere as well. Every day I’m struck by the number of huge gas-guzzling pick up trucks parked around the city, and seemingly every bed completely empty. Letting out the air to their tires would certainly be slower and more work than the old method of puncturing their tires, but has the dual benefit of not necessitating replacement (which has a carbon cost of its own) and not enabling the vehicle owner to file an insurance claim.
You are still assuming a lot of things:
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That deflated tires don’t get damaged either. Look up how tires are built.
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That everyone gets a sticker under the window and all four tires deflated.
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Apparently it has to be “catastrophical” to be bad.
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The only thing you are taking away from society is someone’s time.
IMO as long as you are messing with someone else’s property you are not “protesting”, you are a vandal.
However good you might find their intentions it’s not much better than blowing up mailboxes or slashing tires.
And whether or not you want to see it I strongly believe that point four is the most important part.
What happens to the people who couldn’t be treated at the hospital in time because their surgeon was left stranded with flat tires?
Sure, he could have just called a cab/Uber, but what happens when everyone in the neighborhood does?
Someone else could step in? Sure, but again it suddenly might be more than one that’s affected.
I’m not trying to argue that everyone has a job that society will miss if they are stuck at home for a few hours, but do you think that the people running around deflating tires do any kind of legwork to figure out if they should?
There was a “protest” like this in Oslo, Norway, recently, targeted at fossil gas guzzlers. However the “protesters” failed to discern between electric SUV’s and fossil SUV’s even though most of the electric ones carry special license plates.
At the end of it I guess it all boils down to what kind of ethics you apply. While I can agree with the viewpoint I wholeheartedly disagree with the method and form.
At what point do you find it is ok to do bad things to random strangers in some weird hope to do something good?
It’s not a “trolley problem”, you’re not killing one person and saving five, you are simply putting unnecessary hardship into people’s lives because you don’t like what they drive.
Do you honestly expect someone to go “oh no, not again, well I better go buy a different car”?
There’s no immediate “big car = bad person” logic that’s valid.
It’s very easy to tell the difference between a big car that’s big for a reason (7 seats for large families, van for a business) and a car that’s big just because (i.e. a large SUV).
The problem is that even if 90% of people don’t need an SUV or truck, you can’t tell if someone is in that 10% that does need it. You can’t just look at an empty truck bed. Obviously nobody is gonna use their bed 100% of the time. They might have the truck for work purposes and also use it for personal use. They certainly shouldn’t own multiple cars, cause that’s even worse.
I’m sure the 90/10 ratio is simply a rhetorical device for the sake of argument, but since you brought it up, given that the protest does not destroy personal property but merely inflicts considerable inconvenience on the owner, what ratio would be permissible in your eyes? 95 and 5%? 99% and 1%? What if instead of deflating tires someone merely put some sticky jam under the drivers’ side door handle along with a note explaining why the owner has been “jammed”?
The sticky jam is probably a better idea than the flat tire, due to the lower risk of real damage. Issue would be to make it really uncomfortable while still being easily accessible for the protestors. It has to be as uncomfortable as the tire. But I guess the goo could easily produced at home from household supplies.
I drive a large truck because I truly need and use the bed on a weekly basis. I wouldn’t be able to get by without it, being more than a convenience thing, as I have tried (and failed) for years to use my wife’s minivan. There are a lot of things that you straight up cannot do without a truck. I live on 7 acres of mostly heavily wooded land. That kind of property has a lot of maintenance needs that you really need a truck for.
But when I go to the city, I almost never go with anything in the bed. First, I think it can be unsightly to have my bed loaded up with rotting construction material or large bulky items that need to be taken to the transfer station.
Second, it can be dangerous, depending on what I’m hauling. The load needs to be secured. I’m more likely to get into an accident in the city, so if that happens, now in addition to whatever comes off from either vehicle, now whatever else that I was hauling is going to be all over the place, impeding traffic even further.
If my load is heavy, as it often is (think: maybe 1,000 lbs of cord wood), that has a pretty big impact on my gas mileage.
And if it rains? Whatever is in my bed is going to get wet and soggy and nasty.
And then there’s the winter. I live in New England. You may have heard about the snow we get here. My driveway is 1/4 mile long, and REALLY steep. I use my truck to keep it plowed. There’s no other way we’re leaving our property when the snow falls. But obviously I don’t have my plow attached in the off-season, so it wouldn’t be obvious to you that I also use it for that.
So for many reasons, I need a truck. It is almost never loaded when I have to go into the city. It’s not lifted, I don’t have obnoxious wheels, but it’s a big truck (they don’t seem to make them any other way these days). Now I have to also worry about people with attitudes like yours taking their misguided vigilante justice out on my vehicle because you’re not thinking beyond your nose? Do you really think that’s fair?
Yep, you do, sorry. Change doesn’t happen when you politely ask. Change happens when you’re a disruptive asshole for long enough. Look at the history of protests and activism that actually brought about change.
Except NOTHING is being accomplished by targeting individuals like this. You’re not winning people over, you’re not changing minds, you’re not effecting change. You’re protesting the wrong people. I, as an example, am a huge supporter of education and change regarding climate change. But I still have to live and work within the very system I am protesting. You’re not doing anything by attacking allies like me. Instead, you need to go after corporations, and politicians. Those are the entities that are responsible for and have the ability to influence real action.
I live on 7 acres of mostly heavily wooded land
Well, the activists target SUVs in the middle of Hamburg. That’s not really a comparable situation. I agree it would suck if you visit a big city and get targeted there, but I would hope the activists can decide between a polished up city-only SUV and an actual working-vehicle and act accordingly.
They’re not leaking the air out while the car is driven. Modern European cars all have pressure sensors and will warn the driver when there isn’t enough air in the tires to drive safely. Saves you from walking around the vehicle to see if everything is tied and pumped up properly.
To be perfectly frank, I think it’s weird to write so much about your personal life in a reply to a stranger on the internet. How am I supposed to respond to any of your personal details without risking you taking it personally? Are you looking for my approval of your rugged individualist lifestyle? For whatever it’s worth, it sounds very romantic and if I knew you in real life I’m sure I would be polite enough to keep whatever opinions I have about your vehicle to myself.
So for many reasons, I need a truck. It is almost never loaded when I have to go into the city. It’s not lifted, I don’t have obnoxious wheels, but it’s a big truck (they don’t seem to make them any other way these days).
I suspect we both agree that vehicle sizes have gotten out of control, especially with respect to pick up trucks. Would you have bought a smaller truck if it were available? Would you support governmental regulation to bring pick up trucks back in line with where they were 30 years ago?
Now I have to also worry about people with attitudes like yours taking their misguided vigilante justice out on my vehicle because you’re not thinking beyond your nose? Do you really think that’s fair?
When I think of “vigilante justice” I think of violence, so it seems a little disconnected with the reality of letting the air out of someone’s tires along with posting a note on their windscreen. I think the protestors would agree that ‘thinking beyond your nose’ is very important, and that individual choices can have collective impacts.
I wish this form of protest would catch on elsewhere as well.
I feel this would go over differently in the land of “fuck around and find out”. You’d have bored old dudes with rifles setting up watches. And if when something did happen, public opinion is not going to be on the air-letters side.
not enabling the vehicle owner to file an insurance claim.
My insurance comes with road hazard that would cover this at no cost; and I’m a poor.
It seems misguided. The people doing the most climate damage aren’t parking their cars on the streets. Go pop some private jet tires.
This tastes the same as right wing efforts to convince people making $50k a year that their enemies are those making $100k a year when, in fact, the enemy of both those groups is billionaires.
If you’re a climate activist, your enemies aren’t those with a carbon footprint 2x or 5x what yours is. The enemy is those with 10000x the carbon footprint
The most dangerous people aren’t the rich, they’re the moderates who would rather continue the status quo than risk any sort of uncomfortable truths. You are not going to be able to live the standard of living you have now for the rest of your life. The moderate can either choose to catch on and willingly sacrifice some comfort now for the good of everyone, or everyone can suffer significantly more later.
The rich will always try to use their influence to exploit and extract. As long as there are Ways to become rich, there will be people who are incentivized to be bad people. That is unavoidable.
The real problem is that billions of people have collectively surrendered all of their sovereignty to these few individuals. The many who accept the status quo are class and species traitors, hell, planetary traitors, choosing Their own small comforts over the life of the entire planetary ecosystem, and actively fighting against those who aren’t cowards as they are.
Even though per individual the rich are the greatest polluters, in absolut numbers average people might have a stronger influence on the climate due to being so many more people.
Catalytic converter theft is at an all time high in the u.s. Those old farts ain’t doing shit.
I feel this would go over differently in the land of “fuck around and find out”. You’d have bored old dudes with rifles setting up watches. And if when something did happen, public opinion is not going to be on the air-letters side.
Bored old dudes with rifles watching over their parked vehicles in dense urban centers seems like a disproportionate response to having some tires deflated. I think your speculation about the public supporting someone being murdered over their participation in peaceful protest is pretty depressing. I hope you don’t actually think that.
My insurance comes with road hazard that would cover this at no cost; and I’m a poor.
This is a good point - I’m not very knowledgeable with respect to insurance, especially internationally. Thank you for your insight
Go pop some private jet tires.
I think this is something we can all get behind
Bored old dudes with rifles watching over their parked vehicles in dense urban centers seems like a disproportionate response to having some tires deflated.
As far as they’re concerned, they’re innocent victims and you’re a criminal.
And they’re not wrong. Property damage is a crime, and working-class people aren’t the ones obstructing the development of electric vehicles, solar power, etc.
Bored old dudes with rifles watching over their parked vehicles in dense urban centers seems like a disproportionate response to having some tires deflated. I think your speculation about the public supporting someone being murdered over their participation in peaceful protest is pretty depressing. I hope you don’t actually think that.
Oh, absolutely. I’m not advocating for it, just commenting on the local climate. All it would take is fox news saying “AnTEEfah is coming to cut your tires so you can’t go to church and worship jesus! Why do they hate baby jesus?” and there would be people willing, if not itching, to kill over it. It is very depressing, all that rage could be put to much better use.
There’s sides to this. On one hand, targeting poor workers isn’t a good look. On the other hand, if you can afford a massive new and clean SUV/pickup in Hamburg of all places, you’re probably not a poor worker.
I say go for it. It’s better than blocking traffic.
These comments are disgusting. I don’t understand thinking that this is ok for normal people :/
I agree with you… I am quite surprised to see how many people think that it is OK to vandalise someone else’s property they worked and paid for.
I worked and paid for my property too, what makes you think it’s ok to pollute it with your oversized car?
You mean, the SUV which sits in my driveway? The one that drives less than 500 miles a year?
The one that is parked in front of the house powered by solar energy?
Why don’t you think of who the real problem is. Cargo ships running on bunker oil (This is the nastiest fuel you can imagine). Did- you know, they will typically switch to low sulfur fuels before entering most countries, because burning bunker oil is illegal nearly everywhere.
How, about you target the rich people, who fly private jets everywhere. Let’s not even mention the mega yachts which are basically floating cities.
Instead, of the fellow who happens to own a large vehicle, in order to haul things, and move children between events, while being able to support the proper luggage/equipment.
Also, lastly, Would you prefer me drive around in my big SUV which gets pretty decent gas mileage (in the 20s, excellent for a large vehicle), has modern pollution systems, catalytic converters, etc…
Or… would you prefer I drive around in my tiny racecars, with a 1,000hp turbocharged LS, absolutely no emissions equipment, not even a muffler.
Both are completely legal.
They targeted only the most harmful cars (SUVs) and they did so in the most rich districts of the city, hitting the privileged upper class - which is responsible for most of the worlds pollution. In the face of climate change only car fetishistic troglodytes will criticize this reasonable and non-violent action.
car fetishistic troglodytes
You could have made your point without this little bit- you’re perhaps unintentionally pushing away people who aren’t as familiar with hamburg who saw this action and thought “why do this when car pollution is such a tiny contributor as compared to emissions by big companies”.
