Disclaimer
Not trying to blame anyone here. I‘m just taking an idea I‘ve read and spinning it further:
Intro
A lot of people use free open source software (foss), Linux being one of them. But a lot less actually help make this software. If I ask them why, they always say „I don’t have the coding skills!“.
Maybe its worth pointing out that you don‘t need them. In a lot of cases it’s better to not have any so you can see stuff with a „consumer view“.
In that situation you can file issues on github and similar places. You can write descriptions that non technical people can understand. You can help translate and so on, all depending on your skills.
Other reasons?
I‘d really like to know so the foss community can talk about making it worthwile for non coders to participate.
I think a major deterrent from contributing things that aren’t code is that whoever is implementing it might think their design is better just because it’s theirs.
Try talking to the GNOME team, for example. You will never be able to get a suggestion past them because they’re always right and you’re always wrong.
Even when you prove them wrong and they backpedal, they are still correct and you are still wrong.
You will never be able to get a suggestion past them because they’re always right and you’re always wrong.
I said similar in another comment. The Lemmy devs are the same.
I mean, you‘re not wrong. But I think you’r example applies to far more than you think.
I think the reason we are in a dystopian hellscape is because people need to be always right and never say sorry. That is why the master manipulators are running our countries and economies. Because then you can be always right, poor and exploited but always right.
The movie idiocracy is a perfect depiction of our current world.
But I think we can make it happen nevertheless. We need to tackle points like yours and take them serious. This would be excellent in a code of conduct for the foss community to take on.
I ran into basically this with home assistant. Commented on an issue about an integration to point out that it didn’t work at all, and to support another user that had rewritten it in a way that fixed it. The approval dev jumped in to say that they only permit single changes to be approved. That’s fine, I guess, but to fix the issue multiple changes were necessary. The user that had rewritten it then tried to limit the change to a single fix, but because that didn’t resolve the issue they blocked the change. The integration still doesn’t work and the user stopped trying to fix it.
I totally believe you.
That kind of rigidity in software design leads me to believe more people need to read The Pragmatic Programmer.
I, of course, do not; because I am already a pragmatic programmer.
Gee if someone wants to fix an issue they can be my guest, that way I don’t have to deal with it. It’s not that people aren’t pragmatic it’s that they are little generals of their own world and they don’t want to give that up even if it would make the world better.
I’ve met some absolute Napoleon’s in my time programming. I don’t know what it is that attracts them, perhaps it’s that programmers historically tend not to have very good social skills in general? I don’t know, but it’s weird. You’d think they’d all be total nerds and be somewhat deferent, but nope.
Because UX/UI is just as painful as coding.
What use is a readme written by someone who doesn’t know the code, doesn’t know the internal designs, the design goals, the plans of the current maintainers, anything? It’d be no better than asking ChatGPT to write it for you.
I‘m sure a lot of people who correct text, add references, structure and pictures to a readme would disagree with you.
I‘m not sure if you‘re a coder but it you are, you should know that coding and usability are two entirely separate things.
Yeah, that’s a good point, but the readmes that I’ve seen written by those who wrote the code themselves are not much better. Sure, they know what it’s all about, which is precisely why it oftentimes isn’t much help for a user.
What’s needed is someone who’d read the initial readme (written by the guy who wrote the code itself) and ask questions about the parts that were “too straightforward” to be included, or weren’t explained clearly enough, or to bring down the general overview back to Earth.
And if there’s yet another person who’d go over this second pass, and keep it from being too dumbed down, even better. Keep it to the level of the average user. That requires knowing the kind of person who’d likely use the program.
Edit:
Sorry for all the duplicate replies. I keep getting network errors.
Why does it have to be documenting internal designs, architecture, and all that? Why not app user manuals or install guides or any of myriad other sorts of documentation?
Just because one specific scenario may not be suited doesn’t mean no scenario is suited to what op is proposing.
I mean first, what kind of projects are we even talking about, libraries? APIs? Apps? Command line tools? Etc?
Because the technical writing needs vary depending on what kind of project. They don’t all require coding skills for success.
Asking for a friend: do you code? Because most coders say this and thats my initial point. :)
Technical Writer is a skill. It’s a fairly well paid one too.
Being able to make good documentation is hard.
User Experience (UX), user interface (UI), and graphic design are all also surprisingly difficult. Much of which is integrally tied to the code.
Yeah, I probably should think about taking money for it but making descriptions and manuals is just something I like to do. And there are a lot of people who also do this but dont call it „technical writing“. Often it is things like doing glossars or explaining abbreviations. That helps a lot.
I came here to say something similar.
Just writing documentation alone, is a skill worthy of a full-time job! Of course, there’d be people who can volunteer their time to do that, but without someone with such skill at least taking a look and making sure it’s understandable to someone who’s got no idea what’s going on? Let’s just say that open source software help documentation is filled with such examples.
Using GitHub is a skill of it’s own, and requires knowledge of coding practices. It’s hugely confronting to someone without coding experience
Yes, absolutely but github (which is only an example, mind you) has a lot of consumer friendly accomodations like github gui and cli.
You can edit stuff directly in someone elses repo (or so it seems) in the web browser. I know you have to do a branch and a pull request but thats something that can be worked on.
Since you’re trying to build bridges with this post, I just want you to know that everything you mentioned in this comment is far beyond a non-programmer and sounds totally incomprehensible. It’s jargon soup. I don’t say this to dunk on you or anything, I just wanted to let you know how high your own skill level is, because it can be easy to forget sometimes. People without those skills won’t be able to follow this kind of explanation.
Thanks for the heads up. Yes, I‘m indeed trying to help and apparently some people really want me to stop but I wont. I‘m happy a few actually appreciate it.
The jargon soup is not intentional, I was trying to head off a couple smartypants that will tell me that editing a repository in the browser actually just makes a branch.
You can’t do it right anyway. If you facilitate change, people will crucify you. So I just take hate and dont care at all.
I’m interested in where the limits to expectations lie here. I’m not trying to be a jerk when I say this next part but I do worry I may come off that way but I’m trying to figure out the boundaries of what a “reasonable” expectation is so I can make tasks like this easier for my own team (completely unrelated to this project but it’s essentially the same problem).
Is it not reasonable to expect people to type into a search engine something like “GitHub help” and then poke around in the links that come up?
… Well I’ll be damned, I tried my own method before commenting, and the first link that comes up is a red herring, how obnoxious. I was hoping it’d be a link to the docs, not GitHub support. I guess I just answered my own question: no that is not reasonable.
As a technical user, I am still at a loss for how to help a non-technical user in an algorithmic way that will work for most non-technical users x.x guess I’ll be thinking about this problem some more lol
(I guess I’m rambling but I’m gonna post this anyways in case anyone wants to chatter about it with me)
because a lot of foss devs, contributers and even users are so extremely hostile when suggesting ux improvement/report bugs/etcetc for end users not like them that frankly I dont wanna bother. Same reason I don’t report bugs
maybe first tackle that situation before you ask people to throw themselves into what effectively is a lion’s den to mauled by fossbros who can’t get over themselves
No. First I ask people for feedback and the feedback you‘re giving now is important and valuable. Thank you for that.
I‘m not asking peeps to do anything. I ask why not. Then I take that feedback and try to implement it. :)
Have a good one.
you’re right, I kinda let past experiences cloud my judgment for a bit there, and missed that you were doing the right thing,my apologies for that
sadly the fact that I did does point to the very problem I described.
that said I hope you can get somewhere and improve things, my apologies for the mix up
I think just spreading awareness is a step in the right direction. Most people I know just have no clue and continue purchasing the established mainstream programs. I encourage people to give GIMP a try instead of buying photoshop, or OfficeLibre instead of MSOffice. Most of them are ecstatic to save a couple hundred bucks. The more people that use FOSS software the more likely we are to get the support it needs.
Gimp is way too complex for my needs, but Paint is too light in abilities.
So I use Paint.NET.
I’d rather use Pinta since that is open-source, but last I checked it was kind of abandoned.
Good to know, sometimes when I just want to make a simple edit GIMP is a bit much. I will check that out!
