Sanders notably attributed the war in Gaza to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and “the right-wing Netanyahu government” — not to Israel in general.
This extremely obvious distinction seems to get completely lost in every discussion on the topic. I like Israel and they have the right to exist. I don’t like far right conservative governments run by corrupt war criminals (but enough about Bush…).
Absolutely. Just like caring about the fate of innocent Palestinians doesn’t mean rooting for the Hamas terrorists. Another distinction a lot of bad faith actors conveniently ignore in order to shift the narrative.
Absolutely.
There are essentially 4 groups that need to be discussed here. The governments of Palestine and Israel, and the civilians of Palestine and Israel.
The governments are both murderous monsters who feed off of each other to fuel their hatred and justify genocide.
The civilians are the Innocents being killed and displaced.
This is not a black and white issue though, that is to say: not all civilians are innocent, and not all officials are monsters
Don’t just discount that both populations are supporting their respective governments
I mean Netanyahu has been winning elections since 1996 (granted there was a gap in the middle) so the election is getting dubious.
And 72% of Palestinians believe the October 7th attack was “correct”.
Don’t treat people worse than literal cattle for decades and they won’t hate you.
“The sample size of this poll is 1231 adults, of whom 750 were interviewed face to face in the West Bank and 481 in the Gaza Strip in 121 randomly selected locations.” So 72% of only 1231 people is an accurate representation for the opinion of over 5.4 million people?
Literally 1% of Israelis believe that Israel is using too much force in Gaza. The majority believes they are using too little. If Israelis had their way the genocide would be even deadlier than it is today. This is not a state or a society that should be allowed to exist in its current state. The state has to be dismantled to deprogram the fascism and genocidal ideology that it is built on and perpetuates. This is not going to happen peacefully because they refuse to let it happen peacefully, not because anyone wishes suffering on them sadistically. A system of oppression and murder that refuses to be dismantled nonviolently is going to be dismantled by force. That is the only just thing to be done and the responsibility for it lies on Israel wholly.
I don’t bother explaining when I comment, “Fuck Israel.” If people don’t realize that I’m referring to the government then I have zero to say to them.
Would you assume someone was referring to Hamas if they said “Fuck Palestine”?
Citizens should be moved into the same category as their government. The exact same way liberals lump all Republicans together because they support trump. They believe the same Zionist bullshit that they are gods chosen people (echoes of Germany Master race ideology) and it’s their land. They elected Netanyahu because they support his ideology.
It’s very much Israel’s war, not Netanyahu. Bernie’s wrong. Isreal supports the war, not Netanyahu. Another Prime Minister might have made it worse.
No, I’m not suggesting that. I’m suggesting the Israeli people back this war. It’s not Netanyahu’s war. I’m not so sure another Prime Minister would be any different, perhaps worse. Bernie is in a long line of people that don’t like Bibi. I’ve been there for years. But, there is no use dressing this thing up as one person’s fault.
Has this guy ever been wrong about anything?
Best President we never had.
Pity right? Right up there with what could’ve been had RBG stepped down a bit earlier.
I’ll never forgive her for clinging on to power. She destroyed her legacy and ruined lives for the greed of it
RBG wanted Hillary to pick her replacement. The hubris of that decision. SMH
I mean yeah he actually wasn’t quick to denounce Israel’s genocide in Gaza. I am super happy he has come around but I think I’m the beginning he was reluctant to (not because he agreed with it, because he probably didn’t want to mess with Israeli money coming after him politically).
I don’t think he’s alone. The Hamas attack was a shock to many people, and Israel of course would respond but… even six weeks ago it was starting to become obvious that this was a gross overreaction.
He’s against nuclear power, and that’s the only thing I’ve ever disagreed with him on.
The more I learn about nuclear the less it makes sense. It’s a great source of energy but it’s complex and expensive to maintain. Solar, wind, hydro and geothermal are simple and becoming cheaper by the day. It’s hard to imagine a scenario in which we ever require more energy than those combined could provide.
Solar and Wind can’t create a stable grid, you would need gas/coal backups.
Hydro is fine but causes a lot of damage to river ecosystems and there is so much hydro you can build.
Geothermal is probably best source of energy if you can get it but is only viable in few places.
There’s fusion on the work, so that alleviate some energy issues without nuclear energy and fossil fuels. And fusion might even have less problems, but I don’t know much about it.
The problem is fusion is always 20 years away. It’s essentially limitless energy if we can develop the technology and get it working. Also a lot of places have been moving away from nuclear.
Awaiting the Christian Right to call him antisemitic.
Military industrial complex goes BRRRRRRR while the oligarchy distracts you with yet another “most important election of your life” — forcing you to choose between fascist dystopia or neoliberal dystopia instead of … actually improving the planet and society for future generations.
ok but, trump actually directly said he plans on being a dictator… it’s really the most important election in much of american history…
Just because Biden is the lesser evil (and he most certainly is. By far) doesn’t mean that he should be allowed to be an evil.
He’s supposed to represent the interests of every American who isn’t a fascist, not a foreign government that IS fascist.
Agreed. What does that change? I’m still voting for Biden.
There aren’t any perfect choices in life, all choices of consequence have downsides. Sometimes it’s choosing harm reduction. The man has a solid record of progress with climate legislation, pardoning marijuana possession charges, limiting insulin prices and more.
Could he do better? Hell yeah. But I’m an adult in a democracy and I understand that a vote is a tool, not a moral stance. I can apply that tool in the most effective way by voting for a lesser evil.
I also have other tools at my disposal, like money. So I give my money to groups like FairVote that supports Ranked Choice Voting so that, long after the 2024 election, we can vote for candidates instead of against them.
But I’m not boycotting the system we have unless someone can convince me that Trump will see a lack of voter turnout as a lack of mandate to implement his anti-Democratic, thuggish, racist, sexist plans.
Sometimes choices aren’t fair and even the objectively best decision can have poor outcomes. Biden over Trump, there is no question. If we fight now and Trump or one of his lackeys gets into the chair it isn’t likely to end well. Nevermind wars elsewhere, we are hovering dangerously close to something dangerous here in the US. The best course of action is coming together to make sure every Republican possible is not elected, Biden or another non-GOP candidate is made POTUS, and from there carry the momentum into placing real pressure on the government while continuing to systematically knocking out local elections.
We tend to do this as a whole: Get distracted, time passes and we mostly forget about some crisis or another we were supposed to be all-in on, something vital slips past us, we realize it too late. Rinse repeat. What they count on is us arguing over the rights/wrongs as we always do, and for the loudest amongst us to drown out those trying to pull everyone else back in by doing things like, “THEY DON’T CARE ABOUT [insert major topic here]” and working to socially isolate.
Conflicts like in Ukraine and Gaza are horrendous. Yet we here in the US are at that point where either we step up and work to fix things here, or we risk a future where other countries report on atrocities committed inside our borders, by our government. Maybe a distant future and yet I can’t help but see that dim path ahead.
And if future candidates make the same threat, will your analysis change?
It’s absolutely braindead to attribute this to Biden and it’s not reasonable to think anyone would actually believe that.
Fossil fuel industry too, since there’s a shitload of natural gas off the coast of Gaza.
Yeah it’s hard to disagree with this. While I don’t think that the US or Canada can do much to influence the situation politically, neither should they be providing support militarily.
Bro the US used their veto in the UN to prevent the demand for a ceasefire passing. Literally only USA and Israel voted against. The US is the most powerful country in the world for now, you’d be hard pressed to find an arena of politics they DONT have immense power over. Certainly they have power over the genocides their allies do.
Palestine’s torpedoed all the previous attempts at peace, haven’t they? Can’t fault israel from considering this is just another attempt at a respite so more rockets and tunnels can be built and more foreign support can be gathered.
EDIT: I’ve taken a deeper look and found I don’t know enough about this to have an informed opinion.
what exactly are you talking about? Palestine ratified the Oslo accords even when Israel refused to, until the Camp David talks that literally demanded Palestine being a Soviet style Client state and Israel to control all water.
I mean Netanyahu literally supported Hamas to be able to ignore the PA push for a two-state solution because it interfered with the Theocratic ethnostate plan.
Hmm, I feel like the US are why Israel can do as it pleases. If it weren’t for the US backup the chances of a new war on Israel by several of it’s neighbors backed by Iran would be very plausible. I don’t wish for this to happen, it would be horrible, and I understand that the US should perhaps back Israel to a certain degree. But in return they can ask a lot from Israel, and if Israel doesn’t even comply with not committing terrible war crimes, then the US could threaten them with not having their backs anymore.
What I’m trying to say is: I think you underestimate the role the US can play.
1% of Israelis believe that Israel is using too much force in Gaza. The majority believes they are using too little. If Israelis had their way the genocide would be even deadlier than it is today. This is not a state or a society that should be allowed to wield power in its current state. The state has to be dismantled to deprogram the fascism and genocidal ideology that it is built on and perpetuates. This is not going to happen peacefully because they refuse to let it happen peacefully, not because anyone wishes suffering on them sadistically. A system of oppression and murder that refuses to be dismantled nonviolently is going to be dismantled by force. That is the only just thing to be done and the responsibility for it lies on Israel wholly.
Why would it be horrible for Iran to go to war with Israel? It wasn’t horrible when Russia, UK and USA went to war with Germany. Same situation.
If Iran won a war against Israel at least some of the more extreme in Iran want extermination. You could potentially be trading an incredibly one-sided war with a possible second Holocaust. Many of the most extreme political factions in surrounding countries want Israel wiped off the map and replaced with a Muslim theocracy. If you destabilize the area you’re risking worse than is currently happening.
I don’t think that means the USA should be giving Israel a blank check, but I’m also not a foreign policy expert and I suspect the diplomatic situation is far more complex than you and I can comprehend sitting comfortably on our couch. Especially since holding Israel accountable is also not as popular domestically as it seems in online communities like this one. So any diplomatic pressure has to be behind closed doors.
My fear is that the people fighting against Israel are too brown for America to support.
