That would homestly be nice. It’s not about Eurovision, but about sending a message. If Russia gets banned from many activities for invading a sovereign country, Israel should get the same treatment for doing what is (at best) the same.
Not trying to start a thing but I don’t remember the part of the Russia/Ukraine conflict where a faction of Ukrainian militants committed horrible atrocities against Russian civilians just trying to enjoy life.
The Israel/Russia comparison seems iffy at best…
Yes, I took out the really ignorant thing I said - I apologize for my prior retracted statement.
Funny you should mention that… Did you know that Israel has, on average, killed an equivalent of 9/11 every 10.6 days since October 7th, of which half are children?
Oh, and in terms of numbers, “as bad or worse than 9/11”… if you go by the numbers, it’s 766 civilians killed on October 7th vs 2600-3000 on 9/11. So, you’re not only off by a factor of 4 there, but you seem clueless how your analogy would look when describing Israels ongoing genocide.
Also, why not just use October 7th as a unit of reference. Israel has done an “October 7th”, on average, since then, every 3.2 days. And it’s still not a fair comparison, as it’s 50% children vs 5%.
Comparing Russia to Israel’s scale of war crimes is seriously cutting Israel some undeserved slack, even though it’d be a dumb contest of being the least shitty turd stain on humanity.
if you go by the numbers, it’s 766 civilians killed on October 7th vs 2600-3000 on 9/11
In a country that is 36 times smaller than the US. Look at what 9/11 caused psychologically on a societal level in the US, and how it affected the political decisions in the decade after (sadly).
In the end, Hamas did start the current war, and bears the main responsibility for the civilian deaths on both sides during it. At the same time, I loathe the current Israeli government, and do think that there have been war crimes committed in Gaza by the IDF, that need to be investigated. The thing is, the Israeli government can and will be replaced in the next election. The same is not possible for Hamas, who are just as detrimental to a two state solution.
Most people commenting in this thread seem to have it all figured out and have very clear opinions for a conflict that simply is not that easy to solve.
Do you think that Russia would have been banned if Ukraine started the invasion by massacring hundreds of innocent civilians at a rave party in Russia, and took random tourists back home to Ukraine to rape them, and then spread videos of it all?
Now, Israel is all but innocent. But it is not 1:1 comparable
Indeed it’s not a 1 to 1 comparison. One country is ordered by the ICJ to stop committing a potential genocide, and the other isn’t.
Edit: added the word ‘potential’ to more accurately represent the ICJ ruling.
It has been ordered to PREVENT a hypothetical genocie, not to stop “committing a genocide”.
Israel has done enough bad shit that you don’t need to lie to prove your point
Thats just complete BS. Everyone can read the statement from the ICJ. And no, your claim is not part of it. So maybe stop spreading lies on the internet. Its not like this whole conflict is easy to discuss considering facts, but watering the discussion with lies doesn’t help anyone.
Might as well ban Germany alongside too. Our government claimed that the case brought forth by South Africa was “without any basis” the moment the hearing at the ICJ ended. Now that the ICJ has demanded preliminary measures and explicitly stated that the Palestinians are at a plausible risk of genocide, the government tried to spin-doctor it, that “without any basis” would be a normal way of communicating different opinions on a legal case. Oh and on the day of the hearing the German genocide against the Herero and Nama people in todays Namibia had it’s 120 years anniversary. The German government did not deem it necessary to adress the fact in any formal way to Namibia or anyone else.
Except for 2018 the last decade was a total embarassement anyways and the spot should be taken by a country whose artists actually make it by ability instead of the spot being paid for.
Germany is one of the biggest humanitarian donators and took many refugees from the region. The foreign ministry refused to call it a Holocaust - which is just on another level. The commitee of the Herero and Nama also critisized the critique on germany as populistic and without legal basis and double standard. The defense of Israel is a state doctrine, also based on history, so it might be a little more complicated than a simple good and bad.
Germany is also a major supplier of weapons and military tech to Israel. This includes donating submarines, where the specs are secret, but it is likely submarines capeable of launching nuclear missiles.
Most of the humanitarian infrastructure got destroyed by Israel multiple times and Germany also announced to stop UNRWA funding over the allegations against 10 former UNRWA employees. Nobody demanded them to speak of “Holocaust” in relationship to Gaza, but acknowledging that it is possible that Israel ist intending to commit genocide, is commiting genocide and most definetely has been commiting a great deal of war crimes, is repeatedly rejected by the German government.
The “state doctrine” shows exactly where the problem lies. Germany is using Israel as “proof” of having learned from its past and is happy to commit and help commiting atrocities in the name of Israel. Jews that are critical of Israel are excluded from public discourse, are excluded from arts and culture, have their rights to demonstrations taken away, are accused of antisemitism and in one case also jailed for demonstrating against Israels war on Gaza. So the German government is even commiting many acts of antisemitism while claiming to defend people from antisemitism. Also antisemitism that is rampant in Germanys mainstream society is defendend and pushed under the rug, while trying to paint antisemitism as an issue “imported” through migration from muslim countries.
Here is an articel that goes in depth about it, and provides numerous examples. For instance the former head of the interior intelligence, that is supposed to fight political extremism has been initially defended by the federal anti-antisemitism officer. Meanwhile he was and still is spurting antisemitic conspiracies on twitter.
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-strange-logic-of-germanys-antisemitism-bureaucrats
Oh, right, charity.
I grew up with the stories about how in Fascist Portugal the “ladies” of the handful of priviledged families who exploited a crushingly poor country were big charitable givers.
Act with cold calous cruelty but all it takes is to give away some crumbs and socially you’re lauded as a moral paragon.
Funny that you compare Germany to fascist dictators now, its one of the few countries which actually worked its past and acknowledged it. Support for a Israel is a double sided sword in that regard, just dropping them is definitely not an option. Germany currently houses 3.3 million refugees and paid over 24 billion in foreign aid. Honestly, what do you expect?
It is so typical of German governments to pretend that Germany is the worst in the world and to make up for it ends up helping facists. That was basically what happened with Russia with NordStream. It is also very much what seems to happen with Israel today. Obviously the creation of Israel was in a large part Germanys fault due to the Holocaust and Germany has a moral obligation to make up for it. However that should mean no more genocides and not do everything for Israel, including supporting a government, which openly calls for genocide in parts.
Sadly the German elites seem to have learned the “Never again” lesson in a racist way (Jews are like “us”, not like “them”) rather that humanitarian (nothing like this should ever again be done to anybody anywhere because of their etnicity), hence this continued reaction of unwavering support of Israel against the Palestinians (as in the view of the racist German power elites it’s “those like us” vs “them”) and the contrasting reaction to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine were the victims were “those like us”.
In a humanitarian view both situations are unnacceptable and the one in Gaza is worse because of the intensity, numbers and sheer arbitratrity of civilian killings, but in a racist’s eyes the etnicity of the perpetrators and the victims is what shapes the acceptability it not of murder, hence what’s going on in Ukraine is unnacceptable for the German government whilst what’s going on in Gaza is acceptable.
To my great dissapointment, it seems that whilst Nazism was forced to leave Germany, the rabid racist thinking of it has never left the hearts of the German elites.
It is a bit worse than that. Antisemitism is still strong in German mainstream society. The blind support for Israel is used as “proof” that that isnt the case and now antisemitism is framed as something “imported” through immigration. German anti-antisemitism officers repeatedly criticised jewish people who voiced criticism about Israel or called out antisemitism in German politics. They claimed these jewish people to be “inconsiderate” to the German way of dealing with its history.
Here is an in depth article about the whole ordeal if you are interested:
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-strange-logic-of-germanys-antisemitism-bureaucrats
Progressive and critical jewish voices are ignored, shunned and sometimes silenced in Germany.
Simply removing them on the grounds of not being European should be easy enough and have happened as soon as they were let it. Same with Australia.
So you also want to kick out all the Arab states because they’re “not European”? The EBU has always included the whole Mediterranean. It has Arab founding members.
I know it’s not really about Eurovision, but honestly who cares about Eurovision
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
But seriously, it’s the gay musical Olympics, what’s not to love? (Unless you’re from Germany/UK in which it’s a point of national pride to dismiss Eurovision, lol?)
Only because Germany/UK is dismissed by Eurovision. Sam Ryder was robbed 2022
And no way did Lord of the Lost deserve last place 2023. UK might have.
No, Germany loves to watch Eurovision, we don’t care, that our own country sucks all the time. By now it’s more of a meme and people are betting, how bad it’s gonna be this year.
I, for one, think that given the recent history and the farce that was the Electric Callboy situation we should from now on send metal acts with steadily increasing levels of heavyness until Europe capitulates.
(The “Electric Callboy situation” was the NDR judging that this song was “not suited for radio play”. It’s one of the most eurovision things ever produced. German radio stations commented the situation by playing it on heavy rotation)
Glad to hear y’all are having fun with it! Truly, last year’s results surprised me and made me think Germany might actually be cursed…
For fellow Americans… That’s almost 50% more than the Super Bowl (113 million in 2023).
Every single Eurovision ever has been justified by this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBAdOlQPbwg
(They were not the winners.)
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=DBAdOlQPbwg
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Very good, we need more of that. Countries which openly and actively do genocide should at least feel that the world thinks it’s not OK.
